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Old 05-13-2006, 06:45 AM   #31
Mr_Cynical
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enine
You have to make a partition to install windows too.
True, but the Windows partitioning system rarely makes your hard drive unbootable. Linux does that on a regular basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Swillis
Install Ubuntu...trust me. I installed it on an old Thinkpad and it detected my wireless automatically, and detected my USB mouse and Joystick while powered on and both worked without me touching anything. It also had a battery thingy running in the system tray and has the ability to view/asjust clock speeds. The user community, forums, faqs are unbeatable for this distro as well.
I tried the Ubuntu LiveCD, it didn't detect my wireless card at all (not even showing it as 'unknown device' or whatever) and the 'battery indicator' continually said 'on mains power' even when I pulled the power cable out of the laptop and the 'battery light' on the laptop was on. If I do decide to install Linux it'll probably be Suse rather than Ubuntu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_alfred
Employers looking to hire, who post positions over the net, usually expect a resume in MS-Word format. Most users want to easily create a fancy looking resume with a template. Fancy templates do not translate well from open-source word processors to Word document format. Users do not want to worry.
Many employers will also accept pdf format, which many open-source word processors will convert to. This is extra effort, which most desktop users do not want.
Until employers will accept documents in the native format of open-source word processors, Linux is not ready for the desktop.
OpenOffice can save in Word format, and edit Word files.

Last edited by Mr_Cynical; 05-13-2006 at 06:51 AM.
 
Old 05-13-2006, 09:58 AM   #32
mark_alfred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Cynical
OpenOffice can save in Word format, and edit Word files.
True, but the translation of fancy templates from OpenDocument text template (ott or stw) into doc format often produces erratic results. I've created fancy looking resumes in Openoffice.org, which I saved to doc format, subsequently put them on a disk, and, in a Windows computer, subsequently opened the file on Word, to find that the file was rendered quite erratically. People do not want that worry. Granted, a straight forward run-of-the-mill file can be safely saved in Word format, knowing that it will be properly rendered by a receiver using MS-Word. Many people like using templates for visual effect, and fancy formatting is not translated well, in my experience.

I would not, in good conscience, be able to advise someone to send an important document (like a resume) with fancy formatting created by an open source word processor, to a prospective employer who I know is probably going to use Word to open it. I would advise them to test it on a Windows computer, using MS-Word first, before sending it. This, however, is more effort, which makes Linux not ready for the desktop environment. When there is no more effort (ie, employers accept files in the native format of a Linux word processor), then, it will be closer to being ready for the desktop.

Even OpenOffice.org itself gives warnings: "This document may contain formatting or content that cannot be saved in the Microsoft Word 97/2000/XP file format. Do you want to save the document in this format anyway?" The answer is "no, I don't want to worry about such a warning; so, I want to save it in the format native to the word processor I'm using, and have everyone open it in this format."

Last edited by mark_alfred; 05-13-2006 at 10:06 AM.
 
Old 05-13-2006, 01:28 PM   #33
fyoder
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Who ya gonna call?

If Windows was a minority OS with few users, it would not be 'ready for the desktop' by some ridiculous standard of 'ya don't needs to know nuttin', ya just uses it and it always works'. People proficient in Windows who let on that they're proficient become support for friends and family less proficient (I wonder how many of those 'No, I won't fix your computer' t-shirts thinkgeek sells are sold to windows gurus vs linux gurus).

As Linux gains more and more proficient users it becomes readier and readier for the desktop overall. For those intrepid types who switch without such support, sites like this one are of tremendous value, both starting out, and for referring people to. Perhaps there should be a t-shirt which reads 'No, I won't fix your computer. Visit linuxquestions.org'.

Linux has matured into a great OS, but any OS comes with a learning curve, and no OS is 100% well behaved all the time. The issue of 'readiness for the desktop' is now more a social one than a technical one. Who ya gonna call?
 
Old 05-14-2006, 03:41 AM   #34
Mr_Cynical
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyoder
If Windows was a minority OS with few users, it would not be 'ready for the desktop' by some ridiculous standard of 'ya don't needs to know nuttin', ya just uses it and it always works'. People proficient in Windows who let on that they're proficient become support for friends and family less proficient (I wonder how many of those 'No, I won't fix your computer' t-shirts thinkgeek sells are sold to windows gurus vs linux gurus).

As Linux gains more and more proficient users it becomes readier and readier for the desktop overall. For those intrepid types who switch without such support, sites like this one are of tremendous value, both starting out, and for referring people to. Perhaps there should be a t-shirt which reads 'No, I won't fix your computer. Visit linuxquestions.org'.
This isn't a matter of perception. If I want to connect my PDA to Windows, I plug the USB cable in, I open the files. That's it. If I want to connect my PDA to a Linux distro, I install drivers from a command line, I plug the USB cable in, I type more code into a command line, I access files using more command line, I disconnect the device using even more command line. This situation is repeated for many other tasks.
 
Old 05-14-2006, 05:45 AM   #35
oskar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Cynical
This isn't a matter of perception. If I want to connect my PDA to Windows, I plug the USB cable in, I open the files. That's it. If I want to connect my PDA to a Linux distro, I install drivers from a command line, I plug the USB cable in, I type more code into a command line, I access files using more command line, I disconnect the device using even more command line. This situation is repeated for many other tasks.
But it doesn't work on windows, because some hardworking microsoft people made the drivers for the pda on their weekends. The company who made the pda did it.

And they don't make them for linux, for the simple reason, that there are not enough people who would use it, therefore - not efficient.

I know it is ready for the desktop, because I'm using it goddammit!
(my pda worked out of the box btw.)
 
Old 05-14-2006, 08:09 AM   #36
kinetik
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Back to the gaming issue, I just went to transgaming.org and guess what? Turns out you can play the latest NFS Most Wanted on your *Nix box...
Sure, you have to pay up if you want Cedega, but this just proves that it CAN be done (there are rumours of being able to do the same with the latest Wine).

...only a matter of time...
 
Old 05-14-2006, 09:44 AM   #37
ioerror
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Cynical
True, but the Windows partitioning system rarely makes your hard drive unbootable. Linux does that on a regular basis.
Er, no it doesn't. _YOU_ make it unbootable when you screw up. Linux/Unix does what you tell it to. If you want your hand held, stay away from unix. Unix has been around for 30 years, it's not going to change just because a few people can't use it.

As for the question about whether Linux is (or isn't) ready the the desktop, the entire premise is unfounded. There is no such thing as _THE_ desktop. Linux has been used on people's desktops for over a decade. The question is, are _you_ ready for Linux?
 
Old 05-14-2006, 11:23 AM   #38
fair_is_fair
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Interesting thread with a fair amount of misinformation.

Linux is an excellent desktop operating system.

I have no problems with multimedia, java, flash, usb, codecs, or wireless with the linux flavours I use.
 
Old 05-14-2006, 01:48 PM   #39
mark_alfred
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Interesting thread? Ridiculous. It's just another silly flame thread that we Linux users turn to when we've nothing better to do.
 
Old 05-14-2006, 09:55 PM   #40
Old_Fogie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fair_is_fair
Interesting thread with a fair amount of misinformation.

Linux is an excellent desktop operating system.

I have no problems with multimedia, java, flash, usb, codecs, or wireless with the linux flavours I use.

I cant stream on SUSE, slackware, Debian, Ubuntu, kubuntu news.yahoo.com or yahoo weather, amongst many other sites? How is that misinformation?

Please, please educate me if you know how to I'd really like to use those services.
 
Old 05-14-2006, 10:26 PM   #41
mark_alfred
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Old Fogie, in post # 30 I made some suggestions for viewing streaming video on Linux. Did you see that post? If not, reread it and give the suggestions a try -- which basically is to install KPlayer, and you should fine. Lemme know if it works.
 
Old 05-14-2006, 10:55 PM   #42
fair_is_fair
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Fogie
I cant stream on SUSE, slackware, Debian, Ubuntu, kubuntu news.yahoo.com or yahoo weather, amongst many other sites? How is that misinformation?

Please, please educate me if you know how to I'd really like to use those services.

I just went and watched the Mothers' Day story and Sunday's weather at yahoo with no problems whatsoever. I am using PCLOS .92 and Firefox.

I've been watching this site daily with Mepis 6 with no problem so I assume Yahoo will work too.
http://www.infotecbusinesssystems.com/wildlife/
This is a very interesting webcam viewing baby eagles not so far from me.

I,simply, installed the proper codecs via synaptic and the mplayer plugin for Mozilla.
 
Old 05-15-2006, 04:42 AM   #43
Mr_Cynical
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ioerror
Er, no it doesn't. _YOU_ make it unbootable when you screw up. Linux/Unix does what you tell it to. If you want your hand held, stay away from unix. Unix has been around for 30 years, it's not going to change just because a few people can't use it.
97% of all desktop computer users (all Linux distros put together have about 3% market share) is hardly 'a few people'. Plenty of things have been around for 30 years, or even longer, that doesn't necessarily make them good.
 
Old 05-15-2006, 05:34 AM   #44
ioerror
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Cynical
97% of all desktop computer users (all Linux distros put together have about 3% market share) is hardly 'a few people'.
Since when did 97% of desktop computer users make you their spokesperson? In any case, I doubt whether 97% of desktop computer users have tried Linux, so it's preposterous to say they can't use it.

This forum, and others, are littered with posts from "newbies" who tried linux for the first time, loved it, and had no problem installing it. There are newbies who have built their whole system from source using Linux From Scratch. People who want to use Linux can use Linux. If you can't, that's your problem, not Linux's.

Quote:
Plenty of things have been around for 30 years, or even longer, that doesn't necessarily make them good.
Eh? I think that unix has quite firmly established itself as the most successful operating system design in existence. It runs on virtually every architecture capable of running it. It is stable, reliable, complete, everything an OS should be. Now you're going to come back and claim that Windows is the most successful because it's the most used. Wrong. That is due to MS's criminal business practices, it has nothing to do with quality of the OS.

Operating systems exist so that people can use computers, not so that computers can use people. Unix treats its users like intelligent adults, Windows treats its users like morons who can't be trusted with their own property.
If you prefer that, then that says more about you than it does about unix.
 
Old 05-15-2006, 05:57 AM   #45
Ha1f
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Now, now, let's not go off on MS's business practices. It's business.

I think what you guys are missing is the familiarity factor. When (the majority of) kid's go to school, they're using Windows computers. Every computer you see at Best Buy or Circuit City has a "Made for Windows XP" sticker on it. Why? Because Windows has already established itself as simple to use for even the dumbest users. What do people want? They want ease. Lets be honest, until Linux, or any Unix based OS is SO stable on the desktop that it never crashes or has compatability issues, they won't win the Desktop war. The average user doesnt WANT to tweak theyre system. They just want it to work. Theyre lazy.

Now, I'm not saying Linux isn't ready for the desktop, because I think its made great strides, but it's no at a competitive level yet. The "morons" who use Windows wan't to have theyre hand held, and look, they aren't a community brimming with help forums. On the other hand, we (the nix users) like to get everything we can out of a computer, because we take time to work on our setups.

Ubuntu (ohhh how I loathe Ubuntu) is the only distro thats really made an attempt to compete with the Windows and Mac desktops. Stuff just works. Though, they install more useless crap than Windows does, its still a functional system right after the install. Then it crashes, all goes to hell, and the users end up on a forum. We've got sound issues, video issues, network issues, all kinds of issues, ands whats keeping nix from being truly competitive on the desktop.
 
  


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