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Old 03-01-2013, 10:44 PM   #31
Netnovice
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I was going to respond but I can't be bothered.

Yeah, I'm an idiot. My reasoning is flawed. I know nothing.

Sorry for disturbing. Carry on.
 
Old 03-01-2013, 11:52 PM   #32
Randicus Draco Albus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Netnovice View Post
Yeah, I'm an idiot.
Only if you choose to be.
Quote:
My reasoning is flawed.
Just for the hell of it, I looked at the first three links you provided.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/techn...rticle4098023/
Quote:
When Apple CEO Tim Cook unveiled the new iPad at a press event in San Francisco last month, he declared that we are now living in post-PC world. Mr. Cook justified his statement by saying that 76 per cent of Apple’s revenue in 2011 came from the sale of 176 million “post-PC” devices, including Apple TVs, iPhones, iPads and iPod Touches.
Might he have an interest in boosting sales?
Quote:
Many critics scoffed at the idea, citing a recent Gartner report which predicted PC sales would increase to 368 million units in 2012 and to nearly 400 million in 2013. With PC sales still growing, isn’t it a little ridiculous to suggest we are living in a post-PC world?
The first flaw in your reasoning. A person made a claim. Arguments were made for and against the claim. You seem to have accepted the claim and dismissed opposing opinions and evidence.

http://blog.moovweb.com/2013/02/the-...re-dont-panic/
The second flaw in reasoning. Who is this guy? What makes him an expert?

http://www.techspot.com/news/50873-t...this-year.html
Not much there.

I looked at three of those links. I saw claims and predictions, but not evidence (data such as sales and profit figures) to substantiate them. On the contrary, those articles show that annual PC sales are still at 400 million. A prediction that PCs will be dead by the end of the current year is on a very shaky foundation.

In short, I see the problem. Believe me, I am not trying to insult you, but rather to help you. You need to learn how to analyse information critically. You have done what most people do. Believe what is presented on television newscasts and in newspapers, without questioning motive or bias. You have even cited what looks like a blog entry by a car racing nut as expert analysis. The "secrets" of critical thinking are: 1) To examine all sides of an issue before coming to a conclusion. 2) Examine who is saying what: a) What qualifies the person to present an argument? And b) Does the person have anything to gain from convincing others of his or her utterance? 3) Paying attention to what is not said. That is perhaps the biggest factor in convincing the masses of something. Usually, what is not said is more important than what is.

You have shown an interest in things. That is good. You are willing to search for information. That is also good. Now you must learn how to analyse information and mis-information critically. Like I stated above, this is advice, not an insult.

Last edited by Randicus Draco Albus; 03-01-2013 at 11:53 PM.
 
2 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-02-2013, 10:39 AM   #33
Dman58
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@Netnovice
We are having a discussion, and it shows that LQ members aren't following the market trends that you have been reading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Netnovice
I was going to respond but I can't be bothered.

Yeah, I'm an idiot. My reasoning is flawed. I know nothing.

Sorry for disturbing. Carry on.
No need to get frustrated or angry and especially don't diss yourself like that. You brought up a topic and this community gave their views, nothing more.
 
Old 03-11-2013, 03:51 AM   #34
jago25_98
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There's something you're all missing. I know why too because I missed it when I sold my ipad3 - confused why anyone would spend that amount of money on a toy... I thought.

We're all handy with computers so we see things differently.

I didn't notice it until I saw my mum using a tablet. Sitting in front of a laptop she looks like an aged Neanderthal. - pecking at keys, peering over her specs like an idiot.
But then I saw her using a Kindle Fire. Standing up she looks like some kind of administrator from Minority Report - totally at ease, no worries.

And why not? One thing I think we're all overlooking is that with the "new" O/S setups we have there's no:
- waiting to turn it on ("duh - what's hibernate? sleep? I don't understand...")
- install a load of stuff and you stuff up your system (ok - mainly Windows here but I still think the tablets do a better job of it, especially the ipad)
- your hand is disconnected from what it is you're doing! If you're typing you might be looking at the letters occasionally, then you're hunting for the mouse... it's rubbish. We just don't notice that stuff because we're used to it. But watch a grandma with an ipad and all is clear.

The next question is... what does this mean for Linux?
Let's face it, we only just managed to get the desktop and that really I think was fresh installs - I still find after 3-4 upgrades I have problems to fix.

Perhaps it would be better to bring some of the elements of GNU/linux into Android than trying to compete head to head in one shot as a replacement like Ubuntu is looking at. For example, imagine if F-Droid could compile on the fly like Gentoo does... but remotely, allowing you to customise and review the code as you go. There's lot of things like this that could be done. What I feel like I'm looking for now is Androids interface with access to the power of linux - and I don't mean running linux inside Android - I mean linux programs with a decent user interface. Imagemagick is a good example. It has a good interface as commandline and this kind of thing has done a lot for Android by allowing point and click apps to be quickly developed. If it wasn't for this kind of support from GNU/linux and the community around it Android would have been dead in the water of course and it would all be iOS and WindowsPhone.
 
Old 03-11-2013, 11:39 AM   #35
sundialsvcs
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What operating system is running that Kindle Fire?

Bingo! Android is Linux.

What's running that iPad? Unix again.

But here's the key difference: the user doesn't have to know, and that's good because he certainly doesn't care. Your mum wants to ... do stuff. Not "install and maintain software as a mandatory pre-condition to 'doing stuff.'" Tablet computing moves the whole picture much closer to "the computer is an appliance, and you don't have to read the manual." Which is what people actually want.

It Just Works.™
 
Old 03-11-2013, 02:48 PM   #36
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PC's are not dead. Only sales of them are slowed down. Yes, mobility is now the fad but PC's and tablets go hand in hand. Pc's will never die, they'll only get more powerful.

Last edited by codergeek; 03-11-2013 at 02:50 PM.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 03:37 PM   #37
foodown
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I love how reporters put out the occasional story on how the PC is falling out of use ... typed on PCs.

Then, people talk about it and ponder how true it might be. But, they can't take too long pondering, because then they have to go to work and sit in front of a PC all day long.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 09:02 PM   #38
sundialsvcs
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Funny you should say that, foodown & codergeek ... but ... and nothin' "personal" here (hear me out!) ...

... "Wang, Inc." thought exactly the same way. Back in the late 1970's, when they by-gawd held an 80% market share in the world-wide market for word-processing machines.

Every law-office in the effin' world had several. Rented. Of course. Thousands of dollars a month in "guaranteed" income. And IBM was doin' it, too.

The bottom-line ... that all of us, to our great peril, absolutely must remember ... is this:

Quote:
"The only thing that the paying customer ever actually wanted to do ... was ... to type and send a business letter."
Maybe I'm dating myself (again...), but one of the classes taught at my high school was "typing." If you were female, and could be trained to type a letter on an IBM Selectric without making a single mistake ... your future was presumably assured.

Dr. Wang (and IBM ...) perceived an improvement on that (but saw no farther ...), made gobs of money, and then were wiped off the map because "they saw no farther." Wanna keep going? The IBM PC commoditized the hardware ... but saw no farther. Apple (imitated by Windows) saw the GUI, but ...

(Fast forward ...)

Here, believe it or not, we have Linux folks ... born and raised ... saying that Android (undoubtedly the most hands-down commercially successful implementation of "Linux" ever yet deployed, by virtue of the simple fact that it is utterly acceptable to your grandmother (and mine)) ... what ... "isn't Linux?"



Dude ... (or dudette) ... We are, like it or not, in the business of creating "wonderful technology" for boffins! Who never expected anything more or anything less from us than the ability to type a business letter.

They don't have the faintest idea about 99.9% of what "we" have ever talked about. (Including right now.) Because: "100.1% of everything that we have ever talked about" is ... to them ... an obstacle.

"Your grandma" has Linux in her hands right now, and she is satisfied. Why, therefore, are you not?

Let me repeat: nothing personal. We're all in this together ... and "grandma" is our client.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 09:37 PM   #39
Ztcoracat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
Only if you choose to be.
Just for the hell of it, I looked at the first three links you provided.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/techn...rticle4098023/
Might he have an interest in boosting sales?
The first flaw in your reasoning. A person made a claim. Arguments were made for and against the claim. You seem to have accepted the claim and dismissed opposing opinions and evidence.

http://blog.moovweb.com/2013/02/the-...re-dont-panic/
The second flaw in reasoning. Who is this guy? What makes him an expert?

http://www.techspot.com/news/50873-t...this-year.html
Not much there.

I looked at three of those links. I saw claims and predictions, but not evidence (data such as sales and profit figures) to substantiate them. On the contrary, those articles show that annual PC sales are still at 400 million. A prediction that PCs will be dead by the end of the current year is on a very shaky foundation.

In short, I see the problem. Believe me, I am not trying to insult you, but rather to help you. You need to learn how to analyse information critically. You have done what most people do. Believe what is presented on television newscasts and in newspapers, without questioning motive or bias. You have even cited what looks like a blog entry by a car racing nut as expert analysis. The "secrets" of critical thinking are: 1) To examine all sides of an issue before coming to a conclusion. 2) Examine who is saying what: a) What qualifies the person to present an argument? And b) Does the person have anything to gain from convincing others of his or her utterance? 3) Paying attention to what is not said. That is perhaps the biggest factor in convincing the masses of something. Usually, what is not said is more important than what is.

You have shown an interest in things. That is good. You are willing to search for information. That is also good. Now you must learn how to analyse information and mis-information critically. Like I stated above, this is advice, not an insult.
This:
Code:
analyse information and mis-information critically
Agreed; yet not as smooth when this isn't a everyday practice for the individual.
Extensive re-search and the practice of it makes one good at what they do and is one thing.
However; knowing what you have in front of you (is correct; and is logically makes sense) (can be backed up) is another.
In other words, you know your on to something good and with the stored knowledge one is able to know when the mis-information is present is a whole together different noun. Nothing personal; just having conversation here A tad bit of sharing-

Over analyzing is also a problem if one is not careful- You agree?
 
Old 03-14-2013, 09:40 PM   #40
Ztcoracat
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Quote:
what is not said is more important than what is.
:~$ I'm on board with that
 
Old 03-14-2013, 09:54 PM   #41
Randicus Draco Albus
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Quote:
However; knowing what you have in front of you (is correct; and is logically makes sense) (can be backed up) is another.
No. Is the claim logical? Is it supported by evidence? That is critical thinking. Non-critical thinking is accepting whatever someone says or writes without question. If one asks, Does this make sense?, that person is a critical thinker, even if the person is unaware of it.

I believe what you are getting at is that being educated is not necessary to think critically. If that is the essence of what you wrote, you are absolutely correct.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 09:59 PM   #42
suicidaleggroll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Dr. Wang (and IBM ...) perceived an improvement on that (but saw no farther ...), made gobs of money, and then were wiped off the map because "they saw no farther." Wanna keep going? The IBM PC commoditized the hardware ... but saw no farther. Apple (imitated by Windows) saw the GUI, but ...
Not sure if you meant it this way, but your post sounds like an argument against tablets taking over the world. As you said, all of those devices saw no farther, and they were subsequently beat out by the competition who enabled the user to do MORE. The tablet is the same way. It's convenient, it's easy to use, but it can not do many of the necessary jobs that PCs do. The form factor of a tablet simply won't allow it.

To expand the tablet to the point where it COULD do all of those things and become a viable PC replacement, would negate all of the advantages tablets currently hold over PCs, namely portability, battery life, ease of use, and size. In order to replace the PC, the tablet must first become the PC, in which case...what's the point?

Last edited by suicidaleggroll; 03-14-2013 at 10:00 PM.
 
Old 03-14-2013, 10:07 PM   #43
Ztcoracat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus View Post
No. Is the claim logical? Is it supported by evidence? That is critical thinking. Non-critical thinking is accepting whatever someone says or writes without question. If one asks, Does this make sense?, that person is a critical thinker, even if the person is unaware of it.

I believe what you are getting at is that being educated is not necessary to think critically. If that is the essence of what you wrote, you are absolutely correct.

Is it just me or with some things and in some cases one has to put on the "Sherlock Holmes" hat-?
 
Old 03-15-2013, 09:29 AM   #44
Dman58
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@sundialsvcs
Quote:
"Wang, Inc." thought exactly the same way. Back in the late 1970's, when they by-gawd held an 80% market share in the world-wide market for word-processing machines.

Every law-office in the effin' world had several. Rented. Of course. Thousands of dollars a month in "guaranteed" income. And IBM was doin' it, too.
Where they went wrong was being typical and not thinking outside the box. They developed technology to do a certain task and do it well to make a bungle of money. That is standard in todays' world where many companies, inventors, and just random people with ideas have a light bulbs go off thinking they have the next best thing but then there's always the next best thing #2 etc. Specialized products are only good for but so long before it's obsolete. The PC is so customizable it won't just die off it'll get better and evolve as humans have. . . "Haven't you watched the terminator series?"

When we as consumers feel our pc isn't up to the times we usually upgrade, by a new 1, or 1 with whatever features we want.

Every year thousands of Universities, Corporations, businesses, etc. compete for the fastest baddest most whateverFlops cluster, mainframe, badazz PC and spend tons of cash doing it. That won't stop it will only get better. Amen

Long live the PC!
 
Old 03-15-2013, 12:14 PM   #45
onebuck
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Member Response

Hi,

Valid points have been presented but I believe each have forgotten one thing. Laptop, Tablets, Smart phone and even Desktops are all 'Tools' that a user can select to use as the need requires.

We have always seen arguments about Ford vs Chevy. This is nothing more! People will select the best fit for their use and that tool will suffice for their needs for the environment or fit.

Personally, I have Tablets, Netbooks, Notebooks, Laptops and several bench Desktops for my needs. Each is used for the design and the needs at the time of use. I am an exception thus unique requirements for my daily computer use in different environments. Would I use a Tablet for data entry? Only if the fields were limited for entry. Tablet to read a Ebook. Sure, on the beach somewhere but I am spoiled having a widescreen Laptop so I would do my entries here or on a Desktop.

Smart Phones are great but would I watch a football game on it? No, I've got a Big Plasma for that! Would I use it for GPS or searches while away from other anchored machines? Yes, but the primary use is too make phone calls, I do not text. Even with a Stylus the screen is too small when typing on my Galaxy SIII. Sure works great for my needs when away. My iPad or even Notebook will be used while away from my lab helping clients. Lug my Dell XPS, only if necessary since I can 'SSH' to a bench Desktop from a Notebook.

Hopefully everyone gets my point: Tools, so select the one for best fit and use. Predictions? Sure we will see evolution for different device types but to replace the Laptop or Desktop. No, not in the near future. For one, too costly to replace equipment for everyone. Ask any good data entry or typist which machine they prefer to use while at their desk? Most will reply a decent keyboard connected to a reasonable useful computer and a larger screen along with a ergonomic chair & desk. Most do not like to type on iPads or the like unless a decent keyboard is available. Let alone their ability to over type entries for most modern Tablets using a decent keyboard. My wife is a great typist and prefers a decent entry system with a good keyboard. Limited entry on here iPad. She moves to a Netbook or Laptop to do serious work.

My Dell XPS 702 Widescreen & keyboard fits my big mitts! On the smaller Laptops, Notebooks and Netbooks it is a hassle for my big mitts. Even on my RaspPi bench station a decent keyboard instead of a mini is used since I can source more power to the system to provide a better keyboard & mouse.

Trends by definition are;
Quote:
noun 1.the general course or prevailing tendency; drift: trends in the teaching of foreign languages; the trend of events.

2.style or vogue: the new trend in women's apparel.

3.the general direction followed by a road, river, coastline, or the like.

verb (used without object) 4.to have a general tendency, as events, conditions, etc.

5.to tend to take a particular direction; extend in some direction indicated.

6.to emerge as a popular trend; be currently popular: trending topics on the Internet; words that have trended this year.

7.to veer or turn off in a specified direction, as a river, mountain range, etc.: The river trends toward the southeast.
But I like;
Quote:
What are trends?
Something new that everyone wants to to try.
Drives Industry and profits! Not something you want to base your equipment needs or requirements on when selecting proper equipment or tools for your immediate or future needs.
Hope this helps!
 
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