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Old 11-24-2005, 05:08 PM   #1
randell6564
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Talking installing Gentoo. Loading 'Portage' have stupid question!


I am loading portage snapshot for Gentoo installation..in fact its STILL loading! seems like a hell of alot of files! am I correct when saying that the portage snapshot is applications that will be available once im installed and at the desktop? and if so, isnt there a mirror that I can obtain a snapshot from that has only basic essentials, (example...gimp,openoffice,networking applications,media apps. etc.). Or what exactly is the portage snapshot? THANKS! Scott
 
Old 11-24-2005, 05:32 PM   #2
syg00
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Presumably you are untar'ing the downloaded snapshot. If you think that is a long process you are not going to be a happy camper in the Gentoo world. As for portage, it is the package manager - there is a whole section devoted to it in the handbook.
 
Old 11-24-2005, 06:45 PM   #3
bigjohn
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Quote:
Originally posted by syg00
Presumably you are untar'ing the downloaded snapshot. If you think that is a long process you are not going to be a happy camper in the Gentoo world. As for portage, it is the package manager - there is a whole section devoted to it in the handbook.
plus if my memory serves me correctly, portage just looks at the list of available servers (mirrors) and when one of them replies it downloads a package from there - I think!

I've had it before that when I've been "emerging" a package, one mirror doesn't respond so it tries the next one etc etc - which mirror it asks first, I don't know how it decides the best one.

But as syg00 says, if stuff is time critical, then you probably won't be "that happy camper"!

Usually, it's not the downloading that takes the time, it's the compilation of the package(s) - e.g. I've always used Stage 3 installs and GRP packages initially. On one occasion, I'd left out the last bit of where to find the packages (as in, on the packages disc) and when I tried to do the "emerge -k kde" bit (expecting it to get the pre-compiled version from the CD), it didn't want to know and automatically downloaded the packages that made up KDE - downloading and compilation, took a mere 15 hours on my system (which might have been much quicker if I'd just happened to be using a nice 4 processor SMP system - I wasn't).

Though it's also fair to point out that while a Stage 3 + GRP install is the quickest way to "get up and running", when you get to doing the updates etc (which I habitually do as "update" and "Deep") can also take one hell of a long time. In my most recent efforts, it to a day or so - but as i usually do that stuff when I'm not going to be using my system i.e. overnight, I don't notice it too much.

The luxury is, that once you've got over the install and updating nonsence, Gentoo is "the dogs bollocks"! (excellent/brilliant/etc etc).

I've yet to experience what it's like to "change profile", that'll have to wait untill either 2005.2 or 2006.x comes out.

regards

John
 
Old 11-24-2005, 07:14 PM   #4
randell6564
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Well im stuck again! I got to the part that uses the "selectmirror" command to download and update portage and I lost command prompt (# livecd_ or # gentoo_ ), which ever was there, I dont recall. I thought that pc might just be online retrieving update information so i left it alone. But after 20 minutes or so I just figured I screwed up again so I powered down and am currently installing Suse 9.3 from cd's that I purchased at 'Best buy'. (just like microsoft , dont have to compile or anything!) its gotta be pretty obveous that Im just trying different software. Damn, I thought that I finally beat the complicated installation process of gentoo!! I really want to check it out! will start again from scratch eventually. So the long waiting only applys to installing and updating, or is gentoo a slow system in general? Ive got a bunch of old pc's (K6 cpu's etc..) that i try and upgrade. Dont laugh, but the one i was putting gentoo on has k6 3d processor 300mhz! 20g hard drive
 
Old 11-25-2005, 06:26 AM   #5
bigjohn
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Quote:
Originally posted by randell6564
Well im stuck again! I got to the part that uses the "selectmirror" command to download and update portage and I lost command prompt (# livecd_ or # gentoo_ ), which ever was there, I dont recall. I thought that pc might just be online retrieving update information so i left it alone. But after 20 minutes or so I just figured I screwed up again so I powered down and am currently installing Suse 9.3 from cd's that I purchased at 'Best buy'. (just like microsoft , dont have to compile or anything!) its gotta be pretty obveous that Im just trying different software. Damn, I thought that I finally beat the complicated installation process of gentoo!! I really want to check it out! will start again from scratch eventually. So the long waiting only applys to installing and updating, or is gentoo a slow system in general? Ive got a bunch of old pc's (K6 cpu's etc..) that i try and upgrade. Dont laugh, but the one i was putting gentoo on has k6 3d processor 300mhz! 20g hard drive
To be honest, I've only ever done Stage 3 + GRP installs. I'm just too impatient for anything more in depth. If you followed that suggestion, but stay as closely as possible to the install handbook then it's normally straight forward i.e. get the portage snapshot off the disc, then get the packages off the second disc - sure it's gonna need updating/upgrading of some packages - if you notice, the handbook points out that you shouldn't bother adding any additional USE flags, until after the install is finished. Then you add any that you think you may need for your hardware and then update - which I did with emerge -uDN world so as to take advantage of tailoring the packages to the USE flags that you select for your system. Which is also why my updating took me about 24 hours. Though that didn't matter as I still had full use of the system, the updates were going on in the background. You wouldn't normally have to do the "selectmirror" bit - it seems to me, that thats if you have a slow connection where time/distance may be a concern.

It was SuSE 9.3 pro that I moved from back too gentoo, because when it comes to installing stuff etc, while YaST is very clever, with my install, it was still quite prone to chucking out unresolved dependency problems. It was things like installing package Z, the dependency - package A, was older than the version that I had installed - when it opened the dialogue box telling me this - to my mind, I didn't follow what it was telling me as possible solutions - so after about 6 or 7 occurances, I just said what the hell and re-installed the Gentoo - I just don't get any problems like that. Sure I sometimes get other problems, but nothing that hasn't, so far, been curable in a reasonably short space of time.

As for putting stuff on older pc's, well I should have though that Gentoo is more suited to that - it can be optimised considerably more than SuSE on a "per system" basis. You'd just need to concentrate on getting it installed. Then sort out about optimising for the hardware etc. Though I can't stress enough, that if you follow (and double check any input with the guide - it saves a lot of potential problems) the guide religiously - then Stage 3 + GRP install should take no longer than an hour and a half to get it up and running in graphic mode.
 
Old 11-25-2005, 02:20 PM   #6
randell6564
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im not a big pc wiz, especially with linux, (obveously!), so when you speak of "stage 3 GRP" installing, im not clear on what your refering to. If this is an easier, possably less complicated process, could you please fill me in on the how to's? I was so close and I really was trying to pay close attention to the manual.
 
Old 11-25-2005, 02:43 PM   #7
BinJajer
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Oooh. Looks like you -not- just untarring the snaphot, you must either be dloading it or you have a _very_ slow box.

If patience is not your virtue, you're no gentoo user.
 
Old 11-25-2005, 03:42 PM   #8
bigjohn
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Quote:
Originally posted by randell6564
im not a big pc wiz, especially with linux, (obveously!), so when you speak of "stage 3 GRP" installing, im not clear on what your refering to. If this is an easier, possably less complicated process, could you please fill me in on the how to's? I was so close and I really was trying to pay close attention to the manual.
Ok, 3 possible ways of installing Gentoo. Stages 1, 2 and 3. It depends on which stage you want to install at, as too how much (and how long) it takes. This also depends on how much you know about your system/devices within the system.

The handbook/guide will tell you everything - but I've heard that if you wanted to do a stage 1 install, then it can quite literally take days. Obviously, it depends on how large the "cajones" of the system are (e.g. I'm using a pentium 4 2gig cpu, with 768 mhz of ram, squirting the system onto a WD 120 gig hdd etc etc).

Hence, going for a stage 3 install, actually means that some of the more fundamental bits are pre-built/compiled - but it also means that it's the quicker way of installing the system.

Likewise, the GRP bit (Gentoo Reference Platform), is precompiled binaries. Which is why if you are not using the GRP packages from the second disc (which has the GRP packages), when you emerge something, you're actually downloading it as source, which is then compiled for your system (whereas with the SuSE you mentioned earlier, it's already compiled, but in a general way for the specific architecture that you select - according too the type of system/processor you have).

When you start doing an install, the bit that tells you (in the handbook) about looking at the list of stages on the first install disk dictates just how much you'll have to do - the purists' like to do a stage 1, whereas I go for the stage 3 for a quicker install - there are various bits in the hand book that tell you if you're using GRP packages than move to the next part, or to skip a certain section.

Personally it's my preference to have my partitions already set up - but again, thats also listed in the handbook - I just use the basic set up as it says, the only difference being that I also have a seperate /home partition - that way, if you wanted to try a different distro you just install it to the / (root) partition, and make sure that you tell the other distro installer that you have /boot, /swap, / and /home, and not too touch/format the /home partition - lots of the mainstream distros will pick up the "mount points" anyway (the locations of where stuff goes and what its called).

If you have a seperate hdd to put the linux on, then it can make life easier. Though if it's dual/multi booting, the bootloader must go to the first section of the MBR on the first hdd - thats so that the bootloader can "see" all installed OS's.

The downside of gentoo (well linux in general), is that you have to understand some of the nonclamenture (hard drives being known as hda, hdb, hdc, etc etc - and different partitions being hda1, hda2, hda3, etc etc - which then can become a little confusing with the default grub bootloader for gentoo, because grub numbers things differently - hda1 or the first partition on the first hard drive is called hd0,0 the second partition on the same hard drive would be known as hd0,1 by grub - or say you had 3 hard drives and you wanted the main install on the 4th partition of the third hard drive, then grub would need to know that it's on hd2,3 - it's a little confusing to start with - hence my comment about having a seperate hdd for linux making you life easier - I only have 1 hdd, so it's straight forward - I've already learned enough to dump windows).

Whichever way you want to go, if you're trying to install onto an older system, then unless you've got plenty of ram, gentoo or even slackware (IMO gentoo is the better because of the way "portage" handles the packages of software) might be the best way to go - whereas if you have plenty of ram, then even on the k6 you mentioned, I'd have thought that you could use one of the mainstream distros to start the learning process (Mandriva, SuSE, Fedora or similar). Gentoo is more of a bugger to install, but IMO it's considerably easier to manage.

Installing can be easier if you have a printed copy of the install guide/handbook or even another system to read up and/or ask for assistance on - Gentoo doesn't have it's own forum here at LQ, but it does have it's own forums, located here.

As I say, follow the handbook religiously. Double check any bits that you need to type in, too make sure they're correct. Thats quite important. If need be, use the technique thats listed for installing gentoo without networking - that way, you have to use whats on the two discs. You can always add networking later. Unless you are using dialup (which might take a little more installing - especially if you're using a "winmodem") you shouldn't have to bother with selecting a mirror.

Gentoo isn't the easiest of distros to start out in linux with. The learning curve will just be a little steeper than it might otherwise be with a mainsteam distro.

This is where I get my info from. There and the gentoo forums.

Last edited by bigjohn; 11-25-2005 at 03:44 PM.
 
Old 11-25-2005, 05:17 PM   #9
randell6564
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thank you sir! that is very helpful. I'm printing it, and by the way, YOU should Author the book "Linux for dummies" that Ive referred to through-out the different forums that Ive visited here! Thank you again!
 
Old 11-25-2005, 07:40 PM   #10
bigjohn
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Quote:
Originally posted by randell6564
thank you sir! that is very helpful. I'm printing it, and by the way, YOU should Author the book "Linux for dummies" that Ive referred to through-out the different forums that Ive visited here! Thank you again!
Last time I checked, Linux for Dummies was basically instructions for installing Redhat 7.something - even redhat 9 is very out of date. Hence my directions to the Gentoo stuff - distro specific.

Good Luck

regards

John
 
  


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