I want to use Linux full time; Why I can't
 

(from my original post here

I love Linux and I love all it offers. I am a huge supporter of open source in all its forms.

However, despite my desire to run a Linux distribution as my primary desktop, I cannot for the following reasons:

1) Games, despite software like WINE and WINEX (Cedega), run differently in Linux, if at all

When a new game comes out in the stores, and I buy it, I run home and install it on my PC. However, with Linux, I would have to use quasi-emulation software such as WINE and Cedega to do so. That being said, new games oftentimes do not run properly without new versions of Wine and Cedega. For example, it may take a few weeks for Cedega to support a new game, if they even decide to support it. Plus Cedega costs a pretty penny and has a monthly fee. This is my #1 reason for not switching.

2) Windows Applications, despite the great success WINE has had, still have issues running in Linux

WINE does a badass job of running Windows apps, but it's not entirely perfect; some applications fail to run altogether, and others require lots of tweaking before operating.

3) Hardware support under Linux is usually awesome, but some manufacturers don't produce drivers for Linux, and others don't even care

For instance, ATI has been notorious with their Linux drivers. Sure, they offer some, but they PALE in comparison to the awesome drivers that Nvidia produces. Older hardware tends to detect and run flawlessly under recent distros, but sometimes new and unique hardware has issues. I'm also worried about my PATA IDE PCI card I have running two of my hard-drives; it's not integrated into the BIOS, obviously, and required me to install specific drivers in XP for it to work correctly.

4) Consumer-level software developers don't care about Linux

How many pieces of software at your local retailer (Best Buy, Fry's, Target, etc) will run out-of-the-box natively on Linux? Yeaaaah...

Here's some things from a few other users on my forum and their reasons:

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The reason I'm posting this is I'm hoping you all can share some ideas and thoughts with my predicament; Should I continue to use Windows? Should I try (yet again) to switch?

Please pose your thoughts on this situation, thanks! :)

My thoughts:

1. Submit your complaints about game manufacturers who ignore the Linux market directly to those game manufacturers.
2. Submit your complaints about Windows apps not running perfectly under Linux to Microsoft
3. Submit your complaints about the lack of Linux drivers directly to the hardware manufacturers
4. If the hardware and software manufacturers took Linux seriously, this item would not be an issue

Just to be clear, the only point I'm trying to make here is that if a given corporation decides to *ignore* the Linux market, and they refuse to offer a Linux version of their hardware drivers and/or software, it's not really fair to blame Linux for "bad support". After all, the entire Linux movement is basically a volunteer effort. Maybe if these hardware and software companies were made aware of the demand for their products in Linux, they'd choose to support it. Hence my encouragement to contact the manufacturer with your comments.

If games are your primary concern, run Windows. Or get a console instead of upgrading your video card when the next game is introduced. Either way, your problem is solved.

If you want to run Linux for other things, install VMWare Server (free) and run Linux as a virtual machine. Alternatively, you can install Cygwin (sort of a reverse WINE), and use a great deal of Linux software that way.

If you can write software, and are so inclined, then you can start coding to address the gaps you see. Otherwise, I don't really see a problem.

I would recommend that you use whatever operating system(s) meet(s) your needs. You can dual-boot, or you can use some form of VM SW to run 2 at once.

I have multi-boot with Win2K and 5-10 different Linux distros. The machine is in Windows mode only 5% of the time.

YMMV

I use Windows for diddly; I don't play a lot of games though. I think if you're a hardcore gamer, you're gonna have to keep Windows around for awhile. So that's my opinion on 1 & 2. I use it for scientific/mathematical analyses primarily. For that purpose *nix shames Windows.

With #3, I guess I don't have problems because the code is open. ALSA drivers didn't support my chip until the most recent release. This ALSA code wasn't incorporated into the kernel code until 2.6.20. I've been using ALSA for almost a year though because I was able to add what needed to the kernel code in previous releases. Similarly for the temperature monitor for AMD64 uP (k8temp). It wasn't included in the kernel code until 2.6.19, You can't do that with Windows so if there isn't a driver available you're SOL.

#4, not many...but those are Windows/Mac apps so see #1 and #2. If you need a *nix app you can usually get it free. There's no need to go to the store, the store is connected to your PC any time your PC is connected to the internet. You may have to get used to a new program, but I haven't found any Windows program that I, personally, haven't found an acceptable *nix equivalent.

My two cents...

You **can** use Linux full-time
 

Here is another perspective:

We are all to some degree interested in staying in our "comfort zone". We are used to Windows (or maybe Mac), and have become dependent to some degree on those capabilities.

But what if there were no Windows or Mac? Imagine going back to the likes of an Apple-II, Trash-80, Commodore, Amiga, etc.

Is it possible--RIGHT NOW-- to use Linux exclusively? For easily 80% of the users out there, I think the answer is yes. Maybe short-term you give up some convenience, but it IS possible.

Pay your money--take your choice.

Just stick with Windows. Problem solved. If it ain't broke, don't fix it

Seriously, none of the items you mention have kept me from doing 90% full time Linux. I enjoy fooling with other stuff and I do not wipe a valid OEM Windows from my computer in spite. I just reduce it's drive space and usage.
Speaking of hardware, game, and application support. How do you like Vista.

That's my primary issue at the moment; aside from gaming, I've found I can be just as productive in a Linux environment.

Vista adds really nothing new. A couple new interface functions, a side bar, a searchable start menu... this can all be done with various goofball shareware applications... the only reason I will be forced to upgrade to Vista in the near future is due to the release of DirectX 10 games.

Like others have said, how is it Linux's problem that it doesn't run Windows apps? Does Windows run Linux apps? All you can do is complain to the vendors.

Here We Go...
 

Don't get people started with this one. Microsoft gets one step closer to world domination with every release. Even more proof of that is they just signed a deal with Novell to team up and develop Linux software (so they say, personally I think they bought Novell, like they did everyone else, and isn't telling anyone). That's why were having so many problems with "full-time" Linux. :twocents:

For hardware, why not just buy hardware that is guaranteed to work with Linux. There is a very good HCL here at LQ, that shows what works well with Linux.

Also, what's the status of WINE nowadays? Last time I used it was back in the days on RedHat 9 and Mandrake 9.2... has it had any significant improvements since then?

WINE has changed very dramatically in the last 4 years, just as everything else has.

Don't blame linux just because it doesn't work for you
 

I see a lot of posts where people say "I fed up with windows" or "I'm switching to linux" or something similar, they just jump right in without any clue of linux.

I use linux as my main operating system. I can play
dvds, play all multimedia plugins form firefox and java.
All my hardware works, even my scanner. This did not happen over night, I have used linux since 1999, reading
and studying and experimenting.

Linux is not for everyone. So, if you can't commit to learning linux, then you'll just be a fustrated linux user.

There is no best operating system. Just use what works for you. It's as SIMPLE as that. :)

Dual booting file sharing?
 

As a new user I have a couple questions that might help me understand best ways to set up a dual boot system for that 5% of the time.

Do you have some common folders that all the linux Distros can share?

Do you share or move any files between Windows and Linux?

WINE is much improved but is still at 0.9 something, confirming that its developers know it is not quite there yet.
CrossOver Office is a commercial version in which tweaks are made to allow them to guarantee that certain programs will work. Curiously some things will work in CrossOver and NOT in wine.

I have BOTH on my machines

What is MOST frustrating is the programs that almost work. eg my favorite scheduler (Fasttrack) works 98%--all that is missing is the little popups that tell you what a command does or gives you a sub-menu. ( get around this because I already know what the options are.)

I have now settled on putting all data in ext3 partitions. Windows reads/writes EXT3 very nicely using ext2fsd.

All distros are on one drive
All data on a separate physical drive--this is mounted to a folder in home, and then linked to various users. (/home directory is NOT on the data drive)
backup to two external drives

The problem being... that windows is broken :D ... but there is a huge thread for Windows vs Linux elswhere.

I have been having an interesting time with wine...

My move to linux (shortly followed by my taking up residence in LQ) was delayed for three years because I already had a large-ish investment in MS software. I used: Works2k, Publisher2k, Matlab (unnoficially, I'm afraid), and I had games: "Discworld Noir", "Myst", and "Lords of Magic".

None of these work well in wine. But, my reliance on them has diminished.
Matlab has a linux port, OOo and Scribus take care of the MS ones ... it has seemed that there is something of a race here. And usuall, by the time something works well in wine, there is a passable alternative that runs natively.

So, these days, I ignore wine and hunt dawn a free version.

I don't think anyone has turned the original post around: The complant is, basically, that Linux is not Windows. But that cuts both ways...

I would like to use Windows full time; why I can't

1) Games: Linux games (or online game clients) run differently in Windows, if at all. Windows versions are encumbered with restrictive licenses, hog resources, and often leave discarded temp files lying around, sometimes run malware, or expose my system to malware.

2) Linux applications don't run as well in Windows... if at all. Windows versions are encumbered with restrictive licenses, hog resources, and often leave discarded temp files lying around, sometimes run malware, or expose my system to malware.

3) Hardware support for Windows is usually pretty reliable. If the driver ain't there, it is on a CD supplied with the hardware. But... HW manufacturers are prone to just dropping support. If you lose that CD for a legacy device: it's a brick. And you need a different driver for every device even when the devices have exactly the same chipset! (And lets not go to Vista HW support...)

4) It seems almost impossible to get good, full featured, software online, as a free download. At least not routinely. There are no apt/yum/etc repositories of free software for windows... where I can install with a few keystrokes and start working right away. (Without rebooting, for eg.)

Gratis software that can be found often are encumbered with restrictive licenses, hog resources, and often leave discarded temp files lying around, sometimes run malware, or expose my system to malware.

... this is restricting myself to the original four categories.

Add to that; if you upgrade to the next version of Windows your hardware drivers become redundant and the microsoft equivalent that may (or may not)be available is unlikely to support all of the hardware's features (it will operate the basics). Happened to my printer and scanner with the upgrade to XP. Bound to happen again with Vista.

Yeah... there is a strong risk that my posts will turn this thread into a MS vs Linux flamefest... as noted (post #19), there is a thread for that. the point of the previous (post #21) was the way in which the original four compaints are just so much hot air. It's like complaining that your new Porche isn't a Ford: "My old Ford seat covers don't fit and the gear-shift knob is a different shape".

Using your automobile analogy, I interpreted the original post as saying that he wanted to pick one of his cars as his daily driver and only car, but there were a few things in his way which prevented him from doing so. e.g., if the daily driver needed decent trunk space, the Porsche (assuming not the SUV) may not be a good choice but the Ford might be.

Under the circumstances you have just named, I judge that you have a perfectly legitimate "business" justification to run Windows, at least part of the time.

You should not feel the slightest bit "ashamed" :) of that.

Most of us, I wager, have more than one kind of computer or operating-system lying about, and most of us quite-routinely use more than one.

Hey... computer hardware isn't expensive anymore. And besides, we couldn't give those "old" systems away if we wanted to, so we may as well run <<Windows|Linux>> on 'em, eh? :D

A computer system, like an operating system, is a means to an end, not an end unto itself. Once you have determined where you want to go, you set up the system(s) that will enable you to go there most-expediently, and upon those system(s) you run the appropriate software -- operating-system or otherwise -- that will take you there. Finis!

I use linux full time. And I bet there are others who do too.


Linux is not for everyone, so just stick to your WINDOW$! :rolleyes: