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-   -   Has ATI changed it's wicked ways? (http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/has-ati-changed-its-wicked-ways-500209/)

jkh 11-09-2006 09:50 PM

Has ATI changed it's wicked ways?
 
Long:
I am to be building a new system soon upon the release of UT2007 and to my disbelief I was wondering whether to put in an ATI or an nVIDIA GPU... I have always chosen nVIDIA as they have always worked well for me in the past and they have done well in the way of linux support. ATI on the other hand I have heard described as crap or worse and the responce to linux user complaints was literally shocking, however with them taken over by the ultra friendly user supportive AMD have they changed?
I read some mixed articles but want to know what people really think.

Short:
Is ATI any more Linux friendly after being posessed by AMD?

kilgoretrout 11-09-2006 10:04 PM

Nothing has changed from ati re linux support AFAIK; stick with nvidia.

J.W. 11-10-2006 05:45 PM

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it". 'Nuff said!

soggycornflake 11-11-2006 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.W.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it". 'Nuff said!

Or, in ATI's case, if it IS broke, don't fix it.

(Hey, maybe that's their problem afterall, just a typo in their "mission statement"!)

lleb 11-11-2006 10:39 AM

nothing YET has changed with ATI towards linux. maybe over time AMD will modify that, but there is no holding my breadth for that to happen any time soon.

J.W. 11-11-2006 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soggycornflake
Or, in ATI's case, if it IS broke, don't fix it.

Heh. I wish they *would* fix it. Thanks for the laugh

soggycornflake 11-13-2006 12:55 PM

I can see it now:

Far, far away, somewhere deep inside ATI's R&D department,

Hardware Guy: Hey, guys, I've just finished the new processor, here's a sample board to test out, and the specs for the new features.

Windows Programmer: Cool, I'll just add this stuff to the driver... [tap, tap, compile...] OK, I'll do a quick Doom III timedemo to test it out... WOAH! 539 FPS. Smokin'! Nice one, Hardware Guy!

HG: Thanks, man. [Turns to Linux Programmer] And one for you.

Senior Linux Programmer: Great. I'll just add these new features to the driver... [tap, compile...] OK, I'll run a Doom III timedemo... 11.37 FPS! Yeah, Cool!

Junior Linux Programmer: But, isn't that, like, kinda crap, SLP?

SLP: Hey, kid, you didn't read our job description, did you? Look: [whips out crumpled sheet of paper]

Quote:

ATI Linux Driver Programmers -- Duties and Responsibilities

1. If it's broke, don't fix it.

2. Don't forget to do the washing up before you leave.
SLP: See? Our work is done. WOO HOO! Right, I'm off down the pub, who's coming?

HG: Hell, yeah! I really need a break after all that work. I've been slaving over this for months.

JLP: OK, I'll catch up with you, I just have to do the washing up.

WP: I'll be right with... Oh, hang on, I've just got a virus... Uh, now I have a BSOD. I'll just reboot. Damn, it won't boot now, I'll reinstall from backup. Bugger, I forgot to verify the backup, it's corrupted. Now I'll have to reinstall from the "recovery" partition. Oh, shit, the virus ate my recovery partition. Oh well, I'll have to do a full reinstall. Except, MS didn't give us an install CD, 'cos why would we need to reinstall this great OS anyway? Well, you guys better go ahead, it looks like I'm going to be here for a while...

[As they walk away, the others hear furious clicking amid much cursing and ranting. WP tries to cheer himself up by glancing proudly at a printout of his framerate, but to no avail. In resignation, he collapses forlornly on his desk and begins sobbing uncontrollably as his last few tufts of hair waft gently to the floor.]

THE END.

lleb 11-13-2006 01:47 PM

LoL. very good.

pixellany 11-13-2006 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lleb
nothing YET has changed with ATI towards linux. maybe over time AMD will modify that, but there is no holding my breadth for that to happen any time soon.

Has anyone contacted AMD to see what they have to say??

jkh 11-14-2006 02:03 PM

I could post loads of AGHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAs, LOLs and ROFLs but instead Mr. soggycornflake I shall let you know I laughed SO loud that everyone in the house came to find out what I was laughing so hard at. I know this isn't what I origionally asked for but could you please create a comic strip... or write more short stories?

Manic laughter aside I assume it is safe to assume there has been no change with ATI.
Perhaps it COULD be a good idea to contact AMD but I WOULD not like to find out if AMD care as little about linux as ATI. If I phone AMD up about ATI providing more linux support and the head of AMD says to me "What's this about Lunix? Are you aware we provide support for Windows?" Then I shall have to start using the devils (microsoft) tool (Intel.)

jkh 11-16-2006 06:20 AM

I changed my mind, some one should tell them what we think of ATI so they can stick a programmer or two onto fixing ATI's awful mess. Does anyone have an e-mail address so I can flood them with a link to this thread?

IndyGunFreak 11-16-2006 09:32 PM

OK, first, I admit I don't push my Graphics card with games, etc. I have a 256mb AGP ATI 9550. It has worked fine under every version of Linux I've ever tried. I've never used Nvidia graphics cards(for Linux or Windows, always been an ATI guy).

So am I just getting lucky, or is it because I don't push my graphics card?

IGF

soggycornflake 11-17-2006 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkh
I could post loads of AGHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAs, LOLs and ROFLs but instead Mr. soggycornflake I shall let you know I laughed SO loud that everyone in the house came to find out what I was laughing so hard at. I know this isn't what I origionally asked for but could you please create a comic strip... or write more short stories?

Thanks, jkh. I'm really not much of a writer though, more of a techie person. Speaking of comic strips, have you seen Everybody Loves Eric Raymond? Have a look through the archives, it's hilarious.

Quote:

I changed my mind, some one should tell them what we think of ATI so they can stick a programmer or two onto fixing ATI's awful mess. Does anyone have an e-mail address so I can flood them with a link to this thread?
AMDs contact page for ati related stuff. Had a quick look at their ati site, but couldn't see anything specifically related to improved Linux support (yet). Hopefully support will improve, because at the moment Nvidia has a virtual monopoly on high-end 3D performance in Linux, and that isn't good for anyone. Except Nvidia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyGunFreak
OK, first, I admit I don't push my Graphics card with games, etc. I have a 256mb AGP ATI 9550. It has worked fine under every version of Linux I've ever tried. I've never used Nvidia graphics cards(for Linux or Windows, always been an ATI guy).

So am I just getting lucky, or is it because I don't push my graphics card?

All Radeon cards work fine in 2D, that's not the problem. The problem is achieving decent 3D performance. X supports full 3D acceleration for all Radeons up to, and including, the 9200/9250, i.e. up to the R2xx series. But the R300 and above require the proprietary driver(s).

lurko 11-19-2006 01:06 AM

I think we have to give AMD/TI some time to really mesh with each other. I don't think we have seen anything yet that is the result of their partnership.

Just because Nvidia's blob offers decent 3d performance, doesn't make them Linux-friendly IMHO. Last I read, there was now support for SLI, only it didn't offer any performance increase over using just one card. They leave exploitable vulnerabilities in the driver for years before fixing them(once the public finds out about it), and basically they suck at making decent drivers, even on windows. Before moving away from Windows, I was using drivers that were over a year old for my 6600gt because the POS would never save my overscan settings for TV-out. Every single driver release post-the-one-I-was-using was flawed in that way. And I bet they still are. There are similar issues with the Linux driver, VT-switching eradicates your overscan settings(might have been fixed in the last couple versions, I altered the way I use TV-out and don't VT-switch from TV to monitor much anymore), and at least on the 8xxx series, whether overscan settings were enabled was hit-or-miss.

This 6600gt was the first Nvidia product(video-card-wise) I've bought, and it'll be the last. I'll be buying ATI from now on, however dismal their 3d performance under linux may be. I for one think AMD will only improve ATI. At least ATI releases specs after a card has been out for a while...

rickh 11-19-2006 01:23 AM

FWIW, I have no problem with ATI drivers on my systems. The drivers are in Debian's non-free repos, When I update the kernel, they reinstall easily, and my video appears to me to be flying along nicely. I'm not a gamer, but when kids come over I put up Briquolo or something for them and they're suitably impressed.

That's not to say that Nvidia drivers may not be better, and they do have a history of good Linux support, but I'm not about to change out my built-in XPress 200 card. The ATI company seems to be cooperating with Linux driver developers.

Code:

debian64:~$ glxinfo
name of display: :0.0
display: :0  screen: 0
direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.2
server glx extensions:
    GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating,
    GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, GLX_OML_swap_method,
    GLX_SGI_make_current_read, GLX_SGIS_multisample, GLX_SGIX_hyperpipe,
    GLX_SGIX_swap_barrier, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_MESA_copy_sub_buffer
.
.
.
debian64:~$ fglrxinfo
display: :0.0  screen: 0
OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc.
OpenGL renderer string: RADEON XPRESS Series Generic
OpenGL version string: 2.0.6011 (8.28.8)



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