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Old 03-08-2005, 05:09 PM   #1
RySk8er30
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Debating going to the dark side...


Hi,

I have been testing out Mandrake for a few months. I think the idea of Open Source Software is great and it allows for a phenominal community. Although, with OSS there are also problems...

One great problem is compatibility and dependancies. Mandrake Linux has done a wonderful job with this (URPMI). Although this is true, personally, I'd still like to use some Microsoft Products. VS.NET is a great application for developing web applications (the easy way). I have not found a program in Linux to do so.

Another problem I faced is the speed of Linux. Maybe this is just due to the fact that I knew how to configure my Windows system, but my Mandrake system (same specs) seems to run much slower. Programs seem to take longer to load (FireFox). Also, the OS as a whole takes a longer time to load.

IMHO, a computer needs to be used to increase personal productivity. Therefore, one OS may be better than another, but you should work with what you feel comfortable with. I understand that Microsoft has two main problems (security and cost), but those aren't a factor for me. I have never gotten a virus on my Windows machine as I know how to keep it up to date and monitor for activity.

In the back of my mind, I don't want to switch back, but feel I must. Can anyone else give me a good argument of why to stay with Linux?

Also, there are many more games (3D) which can run in Windows. I don't believe running Wine or VMWare products are a good idea as you are just emulating another OS.

What does everyone think?

**This is not meant to start a flame war. I just want to get some people's opinions on why I should stick with Linux.

Ryan
 
Old 03-08-2005, 05:18 PM   #2
Bruce Hill
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From your comments about what you desire
from an OS, I believe you should use Windoze...
 
Old 03-08-2005, 05:19 PM   #3
ahh
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I'll second that.

If it's not what you want, don't use it..
 
Old 03-08-2005, 05:34 PM   #4
ploosh
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I started to reply with some opinions, but then realized that most it was just personal preference: don't care for IE or .NET, satisfied with console games, excited about the open source games in development, etc. There's obviously a philosophy attached to Linux, open source, and free software. Take a look at Windows and ask yourself what they would: "where would you like to go today?"
 
Old 03-09-2005, 07:41 AM   #5
RySk8er30
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Hi,

As I said before, I'm somewhat tenative to swtich back to Windows. I can't stand their business practices. Also, I'm a big fan of Open Source. Maybe all I'm looking for is a different distribution. I like Mandrake as it has URPMI. Do any other distros use this type of application/service? Also, I am having speed issues. Applications seem to take a bit longer to load, FireFox seems slow loading pages, and the inital boot is slow. I have disabled all unnecessary services (as far as I can tell). Are there any other tips you can give me? I am using KDE. Is Gnome faster? How do I install KDE and Gnome side by side so I can try them both out?

Ryan
 
Old 03-09-2005, 11:33 AM   #6
ploosh
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These are good questions - one's I'm looking into also. I like Mandrake a lot, but I'm wanting (and willing) to explore other distros. Others can chime in with their actual experience, but the two other "workstation" distros I'm looking at are Gentoo and Ubuntu. Gentoo uses something called "portage" for distribution and it sounds as nice as easy urpmi:
Quote:
Portage is the heart of Gentoo Linux, and performs many key functions. For one, Portage is the software distribution system for Gentoo Linux. To get the latest software for Gentoo Linux, you type one command: emerge --sync. This command tells Portage to update your local "Portage tree" over the Internet. Your local Portage tree contains a complete collection of scripts that can be used by Portage to create and install the latest Gentoo packages. Currently, we have more than 8000 packages in our Portage tree, with new ones being added all the time.
Ubuntu looks like it has a component based system that allows you to select the types of packages you want based on their philosophy and user ability. I'm not sure how it actually functions, however. It has a "new to linux" aura about it so it might have GUI tools that make windows-like processes easier than some other distros.

You also might want to poke around distrowatch and see what looks good there. I started killing time by just going down the entire sidebar list. There are some interesting distros that tailor to all sorts of likes and needs. And of course, there are the distro forums here at LQ.

As to installing another windows manager, like Gnome or Enlightenment, you should have the packages available in rpmDrake. If not, you may need to update your list. I just installed Enlightenment yesterday to play around with and it's kinda wild. I tend to use KDE because after a couple weeks I'm more familiar with it, but Gnome seems pretty "tight".

Have fun!

Last edited by ploosh; 03-09-2005 at 11:36 AM.
 
Old 03-09-2005, 12:10 PM   #7
shmonkey
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Quote:
Originally posted by RySk8er30
Hi,

As I said before, I'm somewhat tenative to swtich back to Windows. I can't stand their business practices. Also, I'm a big fan of Open Source. Maybe all I'm looking for is a different distribution. I like Mandrake as it has URPMI. Do any other distros use this type of application/service? Also, I am having speed issues. Applications seem to take a bit longer to load, FireFox seems slow loading pages, and the inital boot is slow. I have disabled all unnecessary services (as far as I can tell). Are there any other tips you can give me? I am using KDE. Is Gnome faster? How do I install KDE and Gnome side by side so I can try them both out?

Ryan
You may well be able to increase speed and boot time by using a distribution such as Gentoo, Arch or Yoper, but if this requires tweaking and kernel streamlining etc then you would see this as detrimental to your productivity.

When you were comparing how long applications take to load maybe you were comparing IE on Windows with Firefox on Linux. in which case IE would win has it is heavily integrated into the OS. Have you tried conparing firefox on windows with Firefox on Linux.. As for Firefox loading pages slowly you are the first person I have heard this from so I don't know what the problem is there.

This however still leaves your earlier point of not having VS.net etc if you really can't live without these then you will need to go back to Windows. Alternatively you could look into http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page. I find Eclipse Anjuta to be a good IDE's.

The Gome vs KDE speed - probably best not to go there (too many flames).

I personally don't have any speed issues with Linux (I am using Arch at the moment). The thing to remember about Linux that it is very scaleable and meta distributions like Gentoo and Arch (and Debian) give you the control to make it as bloated (or not) as you want.

The issues of games is the one that bugs me the most, I wish there were more games - I know that there are quite a few but only a tiny fraction of what will run under Windows.

Just my 2 cents

regards

Shmonkey
 
Old 03-09-2005, 12:47 PM   #8
DaFrawg
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Personally, I like the idea of Linux better than the idea of Windows.

Linux shows a more realistic view of what's going on on your computer (on any level, from user interface to programmer interface). The standard names in Linux are shorter (compare /usr/bin/ with C:\Program Files\), LVM looks more logical on a Linux filesystem than a Windows filesystem (which is still divided in C:, D:, E:...) and, moreover, I feel that Windows is based too much on Visual Basic, which is (I guess) a language Bill Gates himself loves. I think that's why my Windows XP Professional is a bit slower than my Slackware 10; it has to fuck around with the COM subsystem, services and other stupid too-backwards-compatible-but-not-able-to-run-programs-that-worked-on-Windows-98 rituals. Linux takes a long while to configure (let alone master), but when you have everything set up as you want it, it's great. It's great for server technologies, it's great for office use, it's great for anything you can imagine.

Except for gaming. I agree with Ryan; I won't even try to run a game built for Windows on Linux. Linux lacks DirectX, which works rather fast in Windows. Linux lacks COM (I think), so DirectX would be very hard to implement on Linux (I think it would work faster though). That's the only COM thing I like in Windows, DirectX. It provides a centralisation of video (2D, 3D, movies), audio (wave-based, script-based (MIDI)) and input (including Force Feedback, but that's not really 'input'...). In Linux, you have to use multiple libraries that may lack on some systems. The only thing that makes DirectX ugly is the COM idea (I think COM should support class hierarchies natively).

If Linux wants to emulate Windows programs, it should run Windows by itself. There is no other way than that, except for porting the programs. I think that rewriting a game engine wouldn't be too hard though for a few thousand enthousiastic Linux programmers.
 
Old 03-09-2005, 10:25 PM   #9
masonm
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Mandrake was the first distro I used and to be honest I didn't like it at all. I stayed with it and learned to tweak it a bit, but it was never what I needed.

I've used all of the major distros and more minor ones than I care to count (I have a huge collection of cdrom coasters )

For speed and stability you really can't beat Gentoo as it is compiled on your machine for your machine. But it's all personal preference. I don't have any micro$oft products and don't want any. That's my preference. If windoze suits you better, I say go for it.
 
Old 03-10-2005, 10:39 AM   #10
RySk8er30
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Update: I ended up sticking with Linux! I switched Desktop Environments and am now using XFCE 4.2. I suppose I just didn't like KDE. Thanks for everyone's help.

Ryan
 
Old 03-10-2005, 11:08 AM   #11
Ace07
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Quote:
Originally posted by RySk8er30
Update: I ended up sticking with Linux! I switched Desktop Environments and am now using XFCE 4.2. I suppose I just didn't like KDE. Thanks for everyone's help.

Ryan
XFCE is pretty darn fast. Regardless, if you ever get sick of Mandrake, don't hesitate to try other distros.
 
Old 03-10-2005, 02:15 PM   #12
Deeze
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Good for you! XFCE is an awesome desktop, very lightweight and responsive, but with some really cool features.

I used Mandrake for a while, got my head around but still didn't like it. Now I've left rpm based distros far behind me and have no desire to look back at them. You might look into a Debian based distro if you get the urge once again to shop around . As far as Gentoo, it's good, but it's "Linux that wants to be BSD", and if I were to go that road I think I'd just do BSD. I mean, if you're gonna spend the time compiling the system (yes I know you *can* do binaries) compile one with a serious pedigree behind it .
 
Old 03-10-2005, 04:11 PM   #13
rollo
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Café philosophising

Selected quotes:

Quote:
a computer needs to be used to increase personal productivity ... [a] problem I faced is the speed of Linux. I understand that Microsoft has two main problems (security and cost) ... I'm somewhat tenative to swtich back to Windows. I can't stand their business practices. Also, I'm a big fan of Open Source.
I totally sympathise with all these thoughts. I have a similar dilemma. My computer is definitely not faster than it was with Windows. There are a couple of programs I really miss (Quanta isn't a patch on Dreamweaver). I have an ongoing and apparently unsolvable speed issue with GTK apps (http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...84#post1505784 if anyone wants to know more).

But so far I've stuck with Linux, tweaking Suse as much as I can. Because:
  • It's free, conceptually. The whole open source model is just so seductive - the possibilities are endless. The only limit to performance and productivity is your expertise. I don't dare fiddle with sleeker Linux distros than Suse (yet), but I know that I could, if I was determined enough. I could jump in, right now.
  • It's free, financially. I would prefer that this was not so important, but I am a student and if I upgrade Windows then the quality of the food I eat suffers.
  • It's obviously more ergonomic and better thought-out than Windows (and if I can see this, then it must be true).
  • There is clearly some great software on Linux. The Gimp, for example, which seems to me better than Photoshop.

That said, I have one or two gripes which haven't gone away. The complacency about the command line, for example. A command line interface is by definition user-unfriendly - you have to remember what to type. Clearly it is conceptually more elegant, and it will always be a way of getting extra speed out of a system. But in a decent operating system you shouldn't have to use a command line as a matter of course.
 
Old 03-10-2005, 04:31 PM   #14
IsaacKuo
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Why don't you just dual-boot? That way, you get to use the best applications from either OS!

Better yet, if you have a spare computer run Linux on that, and log into that machine via VNC on your Windows box. That way, you get to use the best applications from either OS at the same time!
 
Old 03-10-2005, 06:40 PM   #15
DeusExLinux
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Everyonce and awhile i'm surfing this forum and I am filled with the urge just to tell the comminuty how much I love it... so

I love you, wonderful Linux comminuty.

That's one major reason I have decided to use Linux. There are some programs that load slightly slower (but that's the nature of the best, Office and IE...which i didn't use...are integrated into windows and it loads most of the programs at boot), but i don't really care about that that much. And besides, there are always alternatives.

Also, choice is a big thing. You said you didn't like KDE, so you switched to XFCE. Awesome (i've been meaning to try that, actually). Again, the nature of the best. You choose what you want to use. Freedom IS Linux.

Also, I did use Mandy for a while, and liked it, but ran into Debian. It does load things a bit faster, but there are also fewer processess running, as I customized it more when I installed in, and less afterwards. So, honestly that comparasion isn't that fair.

The ideals behind Open Source and the freeness are what attracted me. The community kept me. And the choice make me fdisk windows off my drive.
 
  


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