Then start hitting those report buttons, sorry but that is not how a public thread on a public forum works. By merely being the OP does not grant the right to dictate terms of the discussion, now a moderator on the other hand can enforce or remind people of the rules, lock threads etc...Which I am inclined to this thread being locked since as was pointed by ondoho, you think this has become "your thread".

2 members found this post helpful.

To everyone;

Please take notice to the LQ Rules
Open and friendly discussion is a goal we all should try to maintain. If anyone has a problem with a particular post then please report that post so we can review and hopefully help everyone to achieve our original intent of freely flowing information that is helpful and constructed to provide information that will aid fellow members.

So please continue a free flow of information concerning the thread topic.

Maybe it would be helpful to all members to re-read LQ Rules occasionally so we can achieve our goals here at LQ.

4 members found this post helpful.

Actual experience doesn't support the assertion that the systemd project is a technical failure which is jeopardizing anything.

Bugs, of course, are inevitable. Especially when the scope of what you are setting out to do is so much larger than before.

The word, "efficiently," isn't any sort of abstract thing. (The progenitor processes have very little work to do, important though that work may be.) Rather, the word, "efficiently," means ... "allows me to do my job efficiently, thank you very much!"

If you can't see the reason for this thing, this does not mean that others can't.

If you don't have justification to use this thing, this does not mean that others don't, or shouldn't.

As for me, even though I have only a small number of machines to deal with right now, "if I never saw another crontab during the rest of my career, I'd be a Happy Boy.™" I've been waked-up from a sound sleep many times just because, during the "batch window" ('batch jobs' being a concept which Linux heretofore knew nothing of, even though we run them every night ...), "a cron-job ran long, and collided with an instance of itself."

What about when the dev.'s refuse to fix reported bugs, blame reported bugs on others, or routinely shut down comments on bug reporting when the bug reports start to pile up? These have been reported countless times on LQ with links to the source.

2 members found this post helpful.

Dunno ... notwithstanding the "human failings" inherent (maybe ...) to any product author, I certainly must say that their product seems to be working just-fine for me!

I already have reported your post (post #136).

I was not dictating the "terms" of the discussion, I was saying it should remain on-topic, as per the rules (and as the moderator has pointed out). I have never said to anyone what aspects of systemd can and cannot be discussed, and for that matter have tried provoking more discussion about different aspects of systemd.

And you are once again (as in other threads), misquoting what I have said (and/or tried to do), and I'm asking for you to kindly stop doing that, as I will be reporting it again in future (and have no problem doing that, once again).

Calling someone a 'despot' is a personal attack and an insult, both of which are against the forum rules (the same rules, onebuck has quoted).

I must also say that the vast majority of members here, who have kindly partaken in this discussion, have done so, very professionally (and civilly) and should be commended for their contributions, to the discussion. And I would like to thank all of those member, here and now, well done to all of you, you make me proud, to be a member of LQ.

I'm not going to apologize for trying to keep the thread on-track and on-topic. You are clearly not thinking about other members who want a professional and civil discussion, and as in other threads, I strongly suspect that you have some other issue with me, rather (or more so) than, what you are quoting.

But, in any case, you have been added to my "Ignore List" and, I will not be replying to anymore of your comments. And for the record, I have no more respect for anymore of your comments.

Ref:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/rules.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd

Some may find it surprising, but the FreeBSD forums does tend to host the odd discussion of systemd, which is fairly balanced - and with less tendency for bias. Though on the whole Linux and "Linux proprietary" solutions don't get much airtime.

However the thread is old and the launchd discussion is a reaction to presentation by Jordan Hubbard an ex FreeBSD core developer. launchd is not part of FreeBSD base and as I understand it there are no plans for it to be.

There is nothing to prevent software such as systemd making it onto the ports trees of any of the *BSDs, but as systemd simply replaces far too much and is too interwoven and Linux proprietary that's unlikely. This is in sharp contrast to Poettering's other notable offerings: avahi and pulseaudio.

As to the thread, in my opinion it has run its course and insult flinging isn't helping. Plus certain posters have simply ignored valid points/arguments made by others because it fits their agenda. Bowing out.

jsbjsb001

The posted LQ Rules posted have been violated within this thread. Including yourself. If you find something offensive or in violation then report that post so we as moderators can address the issue. Let the moderators decide if a violation has been committed.

LQ members have been posting in hope of helping, some posts can be misinterpreted or due to society many may seem direct or offensive. Not intended but lost in translation.

Some of your responses within this thread have shown some dictatorial sense thus some members may find that in violation. As to the following;
The term 'despot' defined as;We all must abide by the LQ Rules. Myself included. You as a LQ member agreed to abide by those same rules. Maybe the members choice of 'despot' seems harsh or insulting to you but you have been attempting to control the flow of this thread thus the definition of oppressing would seem to apply.

I feel the thread has gotten to political in regards of how you are attempting to control the flow of information between members. Please consider that the free flow of information should be allowed without injection of personal judgment towards fellow members. So please get this thread back on topic.

1 members found this post helpful.

Maybe that's what I was trying to say, systemd is establishing a trend to create a "proprietary" Linux distro..
I grew up with DOS and Windows and never got any exposure to UNIX except Linux and.. I always conceptualized UNIX as an OS-less community as they seem to be so critical it is hard to imagine they are completely satisfied to call anything UNIX.. until now, when I find myself being critical of all sort of changes to Linux! Now I am the one asking if something is necessary or acceptable. I have some software development experience on the web and I know just how tempting is to create something cool, something new and better. Irresistible, as the matter of fact, but maintaining and fixing stuff is just a bore.

I wonder if calling all Linux distros (installing with systemd by default) "proprietary" is what the future holds, and the changes by the freedesktop people eventually going to create it.

I'm not quite sure what posters are referring to when they use the word "proprietary". In my mind, that word refers to something that is "owned" by a specific corporation or entity, with restrictions imposed on its use by others.

Systemd, for its faults, is free software. Any distro incorporating it does not become "proprietary" by doing so.

If a person or persons decides at some point that the disadvantages of systemd are too cumbersome then they are able to fork the code and change it as they see fit. You never know, it might happen. The Linux community has shown in the past that if you push it too far then forks will be the order of the day. And that stretches to quite complex software, including desktop environments, so it by no means precludes a fork of the fairly complex systemd.

I've only tried to once again, keep the thread on-topic, to try and avoid any insults, politics, etc. My only agenda has been to try and find out why people ether like or dislike systemd. (or don't care about systemd)

And while there's no useful point in naming names (and I'm not going to ether), I do feel that, while once again, the vast majority of members replying to this thread, have done so in a very professional and civil manner; I do feel a few have been trying to de-rail it.

There's no point in going into, as to why, but I do stand by what I said in my previous post (that you quoted part of). As I'm not interested in who can land the biggest insult, etc. That was NOT the point of this thread.

I do apologize if I have broken any rules, as that was also NOT what I was intending to archive, in ANY way. But if you could pm me and explain exactly which rule(s), you feel I have broken, I would be grateful for that.

I'm more than happy to report any post(s), that I feel need to be looked at by yourself (as I stated in my previous post).

I personally called it 'proprietary' in lack of a better term.
For my next projects, when I select a software the ideal candidate should be working on FreeBSD, SmartOS, Linux...

The question is, should I separate Linux into default installations with and without systemd?

All decisions are made by looking at benefits and costs. If you feel that a system with systemd will genuinely adversely affect your project as opposed to one without systemd then yes, you should take that into account.

It is however only one factor to take into account when speccing a project. You may in fact decide that, despite any perceived disadvantages, systemd doesn't actually have any bearing on your project, or even that it provides advantages. The key thing is to examine the actual project-related advantages/disadvantages rather than the perceived ones.

There are forks of systemd, famously including this one!

As others have said, it's not "proprietary." It's open-source. You can participate. You can focus on particular areas of interest to you, such as batch jobs. It is likely that, over time, more forks (probably of portions of it) will continue to emerge.

And, things like the "joke" I referred to above, just might one day turn into something real.

Even though it's a big hunk of software – too big, IMHO – the essence of it does "fill a hole in Linux" that had been there for a very long time. I personally think that it should have been made a lot more modular. And yet, maybe that still could be done.

Don't like the way it's going? This is the world of open source! Get involved!

- - - -

P.S.: "Yes, gentlepeople, the moderators are right ... as usual." We're talking about a piece of open-source software here, not the end of the world as we know it. (Although there are those who would specifically disagree with that!) Let's stay "on point" here. Talk about the subject – not each other. Thanks.

2 members found this post helpful.

Actually, would the term 'freedestop components' be more expressive, instead of referring just to systemd? Distributions are still, sometimes, distinguished based on the package managers they use by default. So, are they going to be, or should be, distinguished by something along this line?

It could defuse a lot of controversy, when people start looking at distributions as such. Eventually, it should be understood that X, Y and Z distributions are 'freedestop components-based', and others are not, and complaining about the fact is pointless.

ADDED:
I think the critical mass is at the point where we can no longer say it installs "by default". Once there is no longer a choice and the distribution is committed and dependent on 'freedesktop component'. I am not sure whats then, but until then I suspect the difference between a distro with and without systemd is not significant, as ANY distro could be reconfigured one way or the other during INSTALLATION.

We already know, that once a system is installed there might not be a choice, and depending on the software in use 'freedesktop components' might no longer be removed without removing system functionality.