ive done the linux meery go round for the best part of 3 years now..and still cannot find a useable linux.

each and every linux distro is incomplete and buggy.

dont get me wrong, i appreciate what linux brings to the table as OS choices go, but philosophically I have a big problem with the number of distros and think it'll never be where it should be until the development is pooled into a dozen or so major distros- or less even.

i understand the politics and business aspects as well as why there are so many, BUT, i dont think its doing the movement any favours.

to my original question, and one that probably highlights this very problem..

i recently purchased an ACER 5536G with a HD4570 Ati card and tried OpenSuse, Mandriva 2009, Ubuntu 9.04, Mandriva 2008, Puppy, PCLinux OS, Mepis...and more...

none of them work out of the box with the graphics, and none of them work right even after following the terminal instructions on getting 3d effects to work.

now, i understand that the Xorg version and ATI have issues and so on and so on, but frankly, to be a candidate for true production use OS, its got to be better than this.

Windows may be flawed, but everything works eventually..and it doesnt require any coding. On top of that, games are still working in windows. Linux cant possibly be a contender without some serious effort on both OS compatibility and gaming.

So, does anyone know of such a linux creature that the effects actually work within reasonably easy methods for new ati cards?...

and, on the philosophical side, do i have anyone in agreeance with where linux is going?

i.e. if linux just stood stable for a bit longer, allowed programs and drivers to mature, and concentrated on compatibility and games- we'd have more users?

i want to ditch windoze, and am not bagging the community effort, but i really wonder why so many releases come out every year, even when prior releases dont work properly, and we still dont have the other bases covered...

in fact, i'd be keen on just one super linux to go up against mac and ms. but i know that wont happen.

- there is no "movement", there are just people who create, share and use more or less open source software
- the "movement" needs not have a direction necessarily, since it's not a company
- if the number is too big for you, you can always opt for the operating systems that have only one or few versions: Windows, OS X, or some commercial Unix variant
- I've done no coding in Linux when it comes to getting ordinary things (like graphics) work, so your point of Windows not requiring coding is..pointless
- try harder; last computer with an ATI card that I configured used Ubuntu and took advantage of the hardware accelaration in a few minutes after installation---all that needed to be done was a visit to "Restricted Drivers Manager" to enable the driver and a reboot to properly insert the module
- there's no point in concentrating on "compatibility" or "games" in general, it's just as important as concentrating on scientific software, assistive technologies, touch-screen interfaces or something else out of the horde of features people demand from an OS; thankfully you have a wide range of distributions and software in general to choose from, so you've got good chances there exists software you want (and games---talk to game developers, not end-users)

All in all it sounds like somebody told you GNU/Linux is great, you believed it just like that, tried out without too much personal interest and all that resulted in you thinking it isn't an OS X or Windows. No, it's not. Wasting 3+ years with an operating system that doesn't do what you need is a bad move. If some other operating system does what you need, go with it and spare time and effort! Or if none of them do, either live with what you have or start developing something better (not necessarily a whole distribution, but software that you feel would be good).

If it's games, go for Windows/Xbox/PlayStation, or if it's expensive/cool interface, go for OS X, or if it's just that you want things to be done, go for a secretary.

bouncer..thanks for being a dick about it.

if i wanted to be replied to like a moron i wouldve asked.

lets not be all precious here.

i am merely talking about the use of computer OS's from a user's perspective- not a fan boys base, as i have no allegiance.

if you want an all inclusive OS, then you need to provide the whole shooting match.

your attempts to ridicule me are offensive. if you cannot provide an answer then dont post.

i admit that i expected responses of this nature..its like my comments trike a chord in fragile egos caught up in linux land.

this is not personal. its a frank and candid question and commentary on linux in general..and thers no need to read into anything as if its a personal reflection of my own needs. I am speaking objectively and as an observer of the development of linux.

like i said, if you cant discuss like an adult, then please dont post.

please also point me to exactly where it is possible to get an ati 4570 hd card running under linux..just be aware that theres thousands of threads asking about how to do it, and most with the result- cant be done...

id be very grateful if you can provide the solution, and so would many thousands of others, when it appears for many cases, there are no drivers compatible with recent releases making it impossible.

finally, when i use the term "movement", it is merely a way of describing the evolution of linux. It neednt be taken literally. I'm sure people who have respect would read it that way and give some credit, or at least assume that im not some raving lunatic until otherwise proven.

ok?

i hope other responses arent so rude thats for sure....aS i find it an intersting and worthy topic as it was even something asked of the kernel developers not so long ago for a response to- in that respect, i disagree with them for the reasons outlined in my original post.

PS bouncer....your signature seems to encourage questions..yet my question/comment has been met with the brash rudeness of an arrogant know all. I hope you dont treat everyone this way?...i would suggest changing your sig as its not true to your style.

as you can tell, i cant get over how rude you've been with your reply. ill wait for an apology.

The nice thing about Linux, there are different distros that range from computer goof to uber nerd.

For an easy distro, one that you don't have to baby try ubuntu or kubuntu. I like kubuntu as it is KDE and not gnome (personal preference).
One of the first things those distros do, after install is a box pops up and says, hey want to use the non-free driver? (non-free as in you have lic agreement, not that you have to spend money) There are also flavors of those distros, like mint, that makes it even easier.

Knoppix should rock on a bood dvd like nothing you have seen before.

i also like pclinuxos, another cool, easy to use distro.

if you hate tweaking stuff out, stay far far away from gentoo and slackware. (i use gentoo, it takes forever just to install a cli, but its great for making a system the way YOU want it)

personally, i prefer nvidia with Linux, seems to work better, with most distro.


Hope this helps! :-)

I can only find one person being precious here, and it isn't b0uncer.

Again there is only one person being offensive here. Again, it is not b0uncer.

Clearly, this is something that you want, but you are wrong to say that to be a candidate to be a production OS it has to be better than this.

• for most people, the 3d effects are optional
• more importantly, for something like an IT department, they don't even figure in the evaluation matrix
• and, if there was a well-known problem with one manufacturer's hardware under linux, would an IS department buy equipment from them?

You are being unfair. Malware doesn't take very long at all to 'work' under windows.


Are you still discussing 'production'; for reasons discussed earlier, gaming is a disadvantage for production.

Attractive as that proposition might seem, it also seems to be in direct contradiction to the observable facts. Or, to put it another way, why has
Ubuntu seen such a big upturn in uptake while Debian hasn't?

You may think that they shouldn't, but the things that most end users go for are not necessarily stuff like stability (whichever type of stability you mean). They go for things like ease of use -and that means different things to different people- and a pretty desktop. And if the OS supplied it, they'd want porn and illegal filesharing and ways of wasting their time.

If the IT department comes into it, they'd want to stop the users having any of those things, while still having a back-door so they could get to the porn themselves.

Right now, it is unclear what will make the difference, but I am unsure that 'design an OS for me and everyone will want it' is the way forward; if it was, Slackware would rule the world by now. Presumably now I'll get abusive replies from slackware mavens who will claim that I'm being brain-dead for not knowing that Slackware does rule the world.

These types of threads are silly. But, the OP's original question was about 3D acceleration "out of the box".

1. I know of NO distro which provides this "out of the box". You must install and tweak your graphics driver, either open source or prop. The closest I have ever seen is Slackware current using my radeon chipset and open source radeon driver. With the newest xorg/mesa direct rendering was automatic. But no 3D.

2. Windows doesn't provide 3d acceleration "out of the box". You must install the prop. drivers that came with your video card. If you doubt that, try playing "Call of Duty 4" with no graphics drivers installed.

Everything else in this thread is pointless.

Bob

Again, my comments are being ridiculed...not by you Bob, but by the poster who pulled apart my thread.

Mandriva has had 3d working out of the box for some time, it is select-able during install, but the latest gen of ATI cards dont seem to work with anything.

I guess when i refer to out of the box i am wanting at least some drivers that work with a distro for the existing graphics cards- as they do for windows.

So, although out of the box is nice, something that requires just the selection of the right repo and away you go is fine.

True, they do manage the xorg/mesa.

regarding being pointless- i still think that there are distinct groups of users- that being those committed to linux, and that being those who just want an OS that works.

FRom the latter's perspective, the multitude of linux options is confusing and discouraging, especially when many dont work after installed, and the ones that do fail to perform some function (usually discovered after a few days of actual work time). Not always, but often enough, the fix isnt easy, or even possible.

The comments about games and compatibility are from a user's perspective in that ppl want 1 OS only. PPl lust dont want to dual boot, or use virtual machines and most cant organise that or even want to.

To me, the frustrating bit is that linux- for the major distros, is almost there..tantalisingly close in fact. So its frustrating to have to use windows when 95% of what i need to do can be achieved in linux.

This is versus 100% of what i need to do in windows.

taking out gaming, then we still have a delta that requires dual boot or a dedicated non gaming machine to achieve the outcome.

Thats why i still believe that linux should be brought to a few distros. maybe even at some small cost so development can be done.

so it can truly be an alternative to windows.

Try Sabayon:
http://forum.sabayonlinux.org/viewto...p?f=60&t=16766

From a Google search, Ubuntu seems to have 3D support for ATI video. And it may have the best user forums anywhere, but I haven't tried every distro out there. Sabayon has a nice look and feel to it, like Ubuntu, and it is also available in KDE and Gnome versions.

I have an ATI card in my desktop and it seems to work fine in Ubuntu.

My preference so far, after trying SuSE, Sabayon, Fedora, and Ubuntu, is the last one, Ubuntu. For the desktop GUI, I prefer Gnome, but that is an even more individual thing. And you can even install KDE and other desktops in Ubuntu, then choose options and change the session to another desktop that you've installed. (You can apparently do this in Sabayon also since the options were there to switch between a few desktops that were installed by default.)

I believe, with the latest versions of most major Linux distros, and even some of the less popular ones (though still good) like Sabayon, you'll find your 3D support for your ATI video.

With many of the latest distros, you can probably try it out without even installing them. Just run the live CD. You can search here for distros that offer a live CD:

http://www.linux.org/dist/

click on the drop down selection box "category" and choose Live CD, then click "go" and see what's available in the major distros. Since someone mentioned Sabayon, and it's not in the list of major distros, I can verify that it also has a live CD.

My personal advice is to give Ubuntu a try. Then try a few others. If you haven't settled on a desktop GUI yet, you can install others and try them out. Switch back and forth until you decide on one and make that your default desktop.