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Old 04-23-2004, 01:17 PM   #1
nny0000
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A Better Linux?!


Let me get one thing straight before everyone starts flaming me. I love linux. I think it is the best OS out there. Even though many people feel the same way I do, Linux still has issues it should fix.
I am all about choice and open source software. I think people should be able to do what they want to there OS. I am just throwing some ideas out in the forum and seeing how people react or feel about my ideas.

Ok here goes.

1. A universial package system that is distro neutral (maybe autopackage when it matures). lets just pray that the distros actually adopt such a system. Combine all the pro's of ALL the current systems might help.

2. Cleaning up of certain files such as all the Xfree86 config files (maybe one config file for everything). Things seem scattered through out the file system. Example would be placing ALL config files in /etc/*. I have seen programs that don't do this (I understand it is not the distro's fault).

3. Better documentation within config files (slackware does a good job of this but Red Hat and mandrake do not).

4. We have so many choices that it sometimes creates atrophy (spelling?). We have countless programs that do the same thing. let's clean it up a bit and not rely on the distro to install 10 different mail viewers. Pick the most popular and let the user download another program if they decide to.

5. An easier way to view hardware properties. I know the MAKEDEV script just makes the devices to use, but I cant figure out an easy way to find which ones are in use.

7. KDE and Gnome need to play together. While some advancements have been made I would like to see more. Maybe have KDE and Gnome both use $HOME/Desktop for the desktop icons and both DE's can read and understand both file formats (.desktop files) and use them appropriately. Along with that I have heard of a Qt-GTK idea that would make GTK apps look like QT apps and vice versa. Keep up the good work KDE and Gnome.

8. I love the idea of having GUI frontends for CLI based apps. that way you don't have 5 programs that can untar files and only one is a frontend for tar. I might be wrong, I am not a programmer. I think it's just logical since Xfree86 is a optional piece. If worst comes to worst you always have a CLI program (if you mostly stay in a GUI enviroment). Programs that are unique and not another clone should have both a GUI and CLI program/client.

Well there are just some ideas that were running around in my head. Any other ideas or suggestions?

Thanks
 
Old 04-23-2004, 01:52 PM   #3
SciYro
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1) the universal package system for programs (in unix like system) is source code!, learn it and love it
2)who do you expect to clean things up?, and its really not that scattered, usually it installs itself in a different directory all together (/usr/x11R6) , then there /etc and /lib/X11 that have config/whatnot files for it -- and you can put them into one folder if you tell it to at compile time
3)very true
4)all part of the experience, each one likes to fix what another one cant .. it can also be seen as a security feature, if a hacker gets into your system he will have to learn what program you use before he can start playing with files
5) heh, I'm sure theres some program for this here, O Wait, maybe /proc is what you are referring to?, it has hardware /system properties... and theres like 20+ utils to view hardware props out there....
6)you skipped 6!
7)www.freedesktop.org it has a lot of specifications and both KDE and GNOME are compliant to them last time i heard ... it is also the place to get that qt-gtk thing you was talking of, as well other software/specs for icons and themes and such
8)you do realize theres like 1000+ apps on most linux system don't you?, at least 100+ apps for any!

Last edited by SciYro; 04-23-2004 at 01:54 PM.
 
Old 04-23-2004, 02:14 PM   #4
hw-tph
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Look up Bruce Perens and his thoughts and efforts with UserLinux and the Desktop Linux Consortium. You'd like what he has to say (and so do I, most of the time).


Håkan
 
Old 04-27-2004, 07:06 AM   #5
Cerbere
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One thing I'd really like to see is the adoption of a ~/etc directory so my ~/ directory doesn't get cluttered up with all those obnoxious .files and .directories!

.AbiSuite
.armagetron
.bluefish
.dillo
.fluxbox
.giFT
.gimp-1.2
. . .

Enjoy!
--- Cerbere
 
Old 04-27-2004, 07:30 AM   #6
trickykid
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cerbere
One thing I'd really like to see is the adoption of a ~/etc directory so my ~/ directory doesn't get cluttered up with all those obnoxious .files and .directories!

.AbiSuite
.armagetron
.bluefish
.dillo
.fluxbox
.giFT
.gimp-1.2
. . .

Enjoy!
--- Cerbere
Those are personal configurations though... if you have more than one user on your system, what one user wants might not be what another user wants. This would also be bad as it would allow the need for write access to the /etc directory by users, not a good idea IMHO.

Cheers.
 
Old 04-27-2004, 08:25 AM   #7
enragedchip
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What I think Cerbere meant was a directory for configuration stuff within the users home directory effectively a etc directory under /home/user/etc

Probably best to make it hidden so newbies don't go accidently deleting it.

"Whats this etcetera directory doing here I don't want that" *DELETE*

I could of course be wrong.

Last edited by enragedchip; 04-27-2004 at 08:27 AM.
 
Old 04-27-2004, 08:32 AM   #8
XavierP
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All the configuration directories are hidden. In fact, having them in /home/username rather than /home/username/etc is a little more efficient - 1 less place to go looking. And again, why would everyone want to use the same configuration? even Windows allows each user to configure the system differently (see documents and settings - lots of config files and folders there).
 
Old 04-27-2004, 11:26 AM   #9
trickykid
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Quote:
Originally posted by enragedchip
What I think Cerbere meant was a directory for configuration stuff within the users home directory effectively a etc directory under /home/user/etc

Probably best to make it hidden so newbies don't go accidently deleting it.

"Whats this etcetera directory doing here I don't want that" *DELETE*

I could of course be wrong.
Yeah, I misread it but I still see this as not happening anytime soon. I would rather have them hidden than all placed in a etc directory in the users home directory.
 
Old 04-27-2004, 11:32 AM   #10
Muzzy
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Can't you have both?

/home/user/.etc

or it could be called something else beginning with a dot.
 
Old 04-27-2004, 11:43 AM   #11
trickykid
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Quote:
Originally posted by Muzzy
Can't you have both?

/home/user/.etc

or it could be called something else beginning with a dot.
Well, you'd have to think each and every project would have to change the way their program looks for user config's, etc. This has been a unix type standard for a very long time from what I know of.. I don't see it changing really.
 
Old 04-27-2004, 12:45 PM   #12
elluva
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no indeed, this won't change, but cebere still has a point... it can be really annoying when some program doesn't hide those dirs/files.

My view:
It isn't bad to have a lot of apps that do the same thing, but there have to be standards as well (OpenOffice <-> Koffice). I think this is something that is needed the most... open standards.


and SciYro,
1) Indeed source is a way to spread your software, but is it the best? If you want people to take linux serious, you need some kind of installer or package system. Personnaly, I even think the RPM or DEB system are way better than the average installer on windows, but the thing we need is a uniform way to spread binaries. plz don't be so foolish to believe that source code is the ultimate, best and only way to spread software.

2) Indeed, config files aren't scattered that much, but still it would be nice to have instead of 3 dirs, one /etc with EVERYTHING that concerns conf.

4) variation is a good thing, but it can be to much as well. On linux you prolly have 1000 editors, but still some important apps are hard to find or missing. It is important for noobs that they can say I want an editor without having to choose to much.

5) KDE info center? you can find quite some information about the status of your hardware there.
 
Old 04-27-2004, 01:20 PM   #13
mikshaw
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Re: A Better Linux?!

Quote:
Originally posted by nny0000
I am all about choice
This seems strange, considering most of your suggestions are contrary to this statement.

I don't think Cerbere's suggestion is a bad one, but i think any change would be a huge compatability problem for applications already in existence. Personally i dislike hiding files, but I also don't enjoy having to dig through a thousand dots when i'm looking for a non-dot.
Hmmm....something just occurred to me....i gotta find out what mc uses as a "show hidden" toggle...i guess that would fix my trouble
 
Old 04-27-2004, 04:37 PM   #14
XavierP
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This would all be great, but for one thing. Human beings.

One of the reasons Linux has taken off is because it can be personalised and configured and messed around with. Don't like RedHat? invent Mandrake, and so on.

Once you build your unified Linux and have it accepted as the norm, there would be a number of 'other' versions which use source, etc because that's what some people want.

I doubt we will ever have a 'standard' Linux.
 
Old 04-27-2004, 07:30 PM   #15
Cerbere
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Quote:
Originally posted by enragedchip
What I think Cerbere meant was a directory for configuration stuff within the users home directory effectively a etc directory under /home/user/etc
That's not only what I meant, it's what I said:
Quote:
Originally posted by Cerbere
One thing I'd really like to see is the adoption of a ~/etc directory
Quote:
Originally posted by XavierP
All the configuration directories are hidden. In fact, having them in /home/username rather than /home/username/etc is a little more efficient - 1 less place to go looking. And again, why would everyone want to use the same configuration? even Windows allows each user to configure the system differently (see documents and settings - lots of config files and folders there).
The existing setup does not provide 'one less place to go looking', it simply means that you must go looking among whatever files you wish to store in your home directory, which I don't find more efficient. And as long as every user on your system has their own home directory, they'll have their own ~/etc (or ~/.etc) directory, so they'll each be able to configure the system differently. The point I'm trying to make and that you seem to have only slightly missed is that even windows has a My Documents folder for each user, so those 'lots of config files and folders' are kept separate from whatever data each user wishes to store.

And I like the improvement on this idea offerred by enragedchip and Muzzy, ~/.etc would be better than just ~/etc.

Enjoy!
--- Cerbere
 
  


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