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ToeShot 01-16-2002 05:51 AM

Linux, Unix, BSD
 
I have en using RH6.0 for about 6 months now and before that I was using RH5.2. Yes I know these are old distro's but so is my machine.







AMD K2-450+



10 gig Western Digital HD



8 gig Seagate HD



64 meg RAM



24 X CDROM



2x2x6 CD-RW







Yes old but I am poor I just usually find stuff people are getting rid of to use. Any ways I am Running a dual boot with WIN95 (yes old but I saw no reason to change. It's all MicroAches any ways.) and I have been wanting to upgrade to RH7.2 But after reading some of the post in this forum I am wondering about Slackware and One of the BSD's.







Some background Info







On the installs of my RH distro's I have allways did a custom install and installed everything. Reason I was new to Linux and didn't know what I was doing or what I really needed. But now I am convertable with Linux and want to move on and up. I like using tarballs and doing Makefiles even though I have only done a few, and being able to tweak the system. Grant it that I only have one home pc. I very much Like the feel of the Linux System and the control I have over it. I have used DOS and WIN9x but never WIN3.x and Honestly I don't Like WIN9x or Micro$oft. but still find I need it for my Programming in Access which I hope to migrate to MySql and PHP with in the next year.







The Question







My understanding is that UNIX has been around some 40 years and that the system is tits for lack of a better word, and that Linux is a close resemblance of UNIX. Even though it was created from or to communicate with Mimix I think I have read that some where. But I have not heard to mcuh about BSD and I was wondering if I want to use the closest thing to a UNIX system what should I use? A BSD distro or maybe Slackware or is RH a good enough distro for me to learn enough to become a system Admin for a UNIX type system? Or do I need to got to school for that?







I am one of those type who like to get down and dirty and know how and why everything (well everything possible) works. Even though my C/C++ skills are lacking.







Any Suggestions or pointing in the right direction will be greatly appreciated.







P.S. I use Opera 5 as my Web Browser that's not a bad thing?

Thymox 01-16-2002 06:53 AM

Sounds like a history lesson here. Anyone else feel free to join in and either correct me, or just join in.

Yes, UNIX has been around some 30+ years, but that does not mean that it has not evolved. There were originally two Unices, the AT&T 'UNIX' and the Berkley 'UNIX', the latter being more formally known as BSD (what does that stand for, anyway?). Now, there are literally loads of Unix variants around, of which Linux is but one. In '94/'93 (which?), a nice young Computer Sciences student in Finland bought Minix for his 386PC, and decided that he needed more. So he set out writing his own Unix variant kernel which should be fully compatible with the GNU Free Software stuff. The rest of the stuff about Linux is fairly well documented, so I'll skip it. Needless to say, it has developed into one of (if not the) biggest and best known of the Unix variants.

Now, all Linux distros (Slack, RH, Mandy, SuSe, etc) are Linux. That is, no one particular distro is more Linux than any other. Linux is simply the kernel. All the other stuff is what makes the differences between distros.

Now, from what I've heard, the BSD family are a little less than intuitive to use, compared to Linux, but then the command prompt that you'll no doubt be used to by now, is bash (Bourne Again SHell) which is standard for any Unix variant, it is not particular to Linux. Regardless of which Unix variant you choose, you are more than likely to have the bash shell available to you.

If I were you, I would stick with Linux, for the time being at least, until you are more than comfortable with it, but don't be affraid to triple boot if you want to try something different.

Keep us posted on your decisions, successes and failures.

taz.devil 01-16-2002 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thymox
...more formally known as BSD (what does that stand for, anyway?).
"B"erkley
"S"oftware
"D"evelopment/Developers

If I remember correctly...

trickykid 01-16-2002 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thymox
In '94/'93 (which?), a nice young Computer Sciences student in Finland bought Minix for his 386PC, and decided that he needed more. So he set out writing his own Unix variant kernel which should be fully compatible with the GNU Free Software stuff. The rest of the stuff about Linux is fairly well documented, so I'll skip it. Needless to say, it has developed into one of (if not the) biggest and best known of the Unix variants.
acutally Linus Torvalds started Linux around '91.

finegan 01-16-2002 01:01 PM

I haven't got much to add, although if I remember right, Guy Ritchie and the other cat who created UNIX did it in... and I know I'm going to be off by a tiny bit... 1972 on I think an old PDP-9. I really should re-read Open Sources. There were, and still are, a ton of commercial Unix. The only survivor on the Intel 32-bit PC platform seems to be Solaris, but they just cancelled development for Solaris 9 on PC, :(

Your UNIX choices would then be: 10x20^5 Linux distributions, one of the three BSDs, I recommend FreeBSD (it runs fine on old crates, my P1 200 for example), or finding a copy of Solaris 8 if you really want a test-toy for sysadmin'ing. Did I miss anything?

The Unix survivors these days, and don't let anyone give the proprietary Unix's's's flak, what are you going to replace them with? An MS exchange server? Let's see, IBM's AIX, HP's HP-UX, Solaris 8 and soon 9 for their Server kit, AT&Ts IRIX is still around, right(?). However, in every case but Sun's Solaris, each of those is being slowly phased out and the companies are letting the Open Source world build the OSes. It saves them development cost.

Please correct me if I got much of that wrong.

Cheers,

Finegan

Thymox 01-17-2002 06:33 AM

Cheers Trickykid. That would explain the whole 'We're now 10' birthday party type thing that was going on all over the internet last year.

jedl 01-25-2002 10:50 PM

BSD stands for:

-Berkeley

-Software

-Distribution

not developers/development


ciao,
jedl

jazz... 01-28-2002 08:10 AM

The Answer:

Unix has been around since the late 60's which has been mentioned. Ken Thompson and Dennis Richie designed UNIX and the c compiler.

Linux resembles UNIX in a lot of ways. You can use the unix commands in linux, x windows etc. etc. My understanding is that Linux arose as an alternative to windows. I might get shot for this statement but nevertheless I personally think a lot of people got fed up with Microsoft and decided to give the underdog a try.
Linux has had a lot of growing pains but now it is doing well.

BSD or Berkley System Design was one of a number of universities in the late 70's was given UNIX to use virtually for free. This was in the hope that graduating students upon entering the workforce would advocate and ultimately lead to more UNIX sales which it did.

But I have not heard to mcuh about BSD and I was wondering if I want to use the closest thing to a UNIX system what should I use?

To be quite honest, a UNIX system is a UNIX system. Each one is different ie AIX, Solaris, HP UX. and has its own unique little quiks and quarks.

A BSD distro or maybe Slackware or is RH a good enough distro for me to learn enough to become a system Admin for a UNIX type system?

All of those would give you a good foundation in UNIX/LINUX. ie gettting your basic skills, learning to do advanced features.

Or do I need to got to school for that?
Not really, unless you would want to accelerate your learning curve.

theneoprotocol 01-30-2002 09:20 AM

Hummmm Choices
 
The biggest down fall for human kind. It makes us hesitate and lack decisive decision. But when it comes to stating what to use just do it. I like both linux and freebsd( tho they clain netBSD rules) for they have their pro's and con's. I might catch some flack for this but I feel linux is an awesome workstaion OS. freeBSD is a great server OS. But since you have older hardware i must admit the linux 2.4.x kernel runs like dododo but freebsd 4..x ran great.
I was using a k-6 400 192M RAM box. My tester :) but the main one I built recently EMI radiates through the room. My pace maker will stop soon:)

taz.devil 01-30-2002 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jedl
BSD stands for:

-Berkeley

-Software

-Distribution

not developers/development


ciao,
jedl

I stand corrected! LOL I honestly couldn't remember what the D stood for, and now I guess I know...?!?,,e;;s9(#$

jedl 01-30-2002 10:56 PM

Berkeley System Design (Intl) is the name of the company that took over distribution rights, not what BSD itself actually originally stood for?! I could b wrong, but this was my understanding.

Quote:

I stand corrected! LOL I honestly couldn't remember what the D stood for, and now I guess I know...?!?,,e;;s9(#$
Do I detect a note of sarcasm?

If yes: d00d i was not trying to cramp your style. Ive been corrected many a time and have no issues with being told im entirely wrong. Good luck ever learning effectively if u do.

If no: don worry bout me. Im just getting more paranoid as i get older, i guess :D

finegan 01-31-2002 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jedl
Do I detect a note of sarcasm?

If yes: d00d i was not trying to cramp your style. Ive been corrected many a time and have no issues with being told im entirely wrong. Good luck ever learning effectively if u do.

If no: don worry bout me. Im just getting more paranoid as i get older, i guess :D

Wow, I'm constantly amazed at how polite everyone is on this board. The University where I work has a .unix.linux newsgroup, tin -r style, where the usual response to a query is 5 replies of derision followed by possibly one or two half thought out answers.

Oh, Jedl, that's just Taz being genuinely appreciative. I don't think he knows derision. Its kind of eerie.

Cheers,

Finegan

taz.devil 01-31-2002 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jedl

Do I detect a note of sarcasm?

If yes: d00d i was not trying to cramp your style. Ive been corrected many a time and have no issues with being told im entirely wrong. Good luck ever learning effectively if u do.

If no: don worry bout me. Im just getting more paranoid as i get older, i guess :D

No, I wasn't being sarcastic, sorry if I came out that way. And trust me, I have NO style! LOL :) Anyone else sitting in front of the computer with a plain gray t-shirt and a pair of JoeBoxer pants on? These things are COMMMMMFYYYY. As for an internet presence of style, i'm usually just a voice in the wind, or in the case I eat too many Goldfish, I break the wind. Too much info?! I'm sure it was... LOL :eek:

Quote:

Originally posted by finegan

Oh, Jedl, that's just Taz being genuinely appreciative. I don't think he knows derision. Its kind of eerie.

Aww shucks, I appreciate the sentiment finegan, that's very kind of you. And yes, it is kind of nice to have a forum where we aren't pounding each other into the ground for not knowing something. Eerie? Nahh, i just swallow alot of pride. ;)

Thymox 01-31-2002 06:06 PM

Quote:

i just swallow alot of pride
I wouldn't worry about it! The number of times I've been corrected, my stomach is totally bloated on pride.

ToeShot 01-31-2002 07:34 PM

I would like to thank everybody for their input. After rreading the replies here and some of the other post in this forum, it sounds like any UNIX like system will actuall do. it just depends on how deep I want to expand my knowledge.

THANK YOU EVERY ONE!!!!!!


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