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Old 12-03-2012, 05:18 PM   #16
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remusrm View Post
Wheezy comes to the level of current RHEL/CENTOS/SL amd that is about 1-2 yrs old.
Where did you get that from? If you really compare Debian 6/Squeeze with RHEL 6.3 you will se that they are more or less up to par when it comes to version numbers. Some programs are newer in Debian, some are newer in RHEL. Wheezy will be more or less up to par with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.

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Also, way out there vs arch/fedora/ubuntu based.
Not relevant, Fedora, Arch and the non-LTS versions of Ubuntu are not in the same league when it comes to stability.
 
Old 12-03-2012, 11:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Where did you get that from? If you really compare Debian 6/Squeeze with RHEL 6.3 you will se that they are more or less up to par when it comes to version numbers. Some programs are newer in Debian, some are newer in RHEL. Wheezy will be more or less up to par with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS.

Not relevant, Fedora, Arch and the non-LTS versions of Ubuntu are not in the same league when it comes to stability.
one ex: squeeze-"firefox 3.5" vs Rhel/ETC firefox 10 out of the box. When wheezy will be out, RHEL clones will still be ahead. Only now wheezy will have 10. Dont get me wrong, Debian is stable, but way out of date. And yes, Fedora, Arch and non LTS are different, but used it as an example.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 06:33 AM   #18
TobiSGD
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So you decide which one has the newer software on one program? Compare the version numbers that matter: kernel, desktop environments, ..., Distrowatch has nice tables for that. You won't notice much differences.
The point of a stable distro is to keep changes of version numbers to an absolute minimum, otherwise they would be useless for corporate environments. This includes of course the browser. Mozilla's decision to release ESR versions came way later than the release of Squeeze, so they decided, as is normal Debian policy, not to upgrade Firefox in a point release, as Red Hat has done, but to release it in the backports repository, so that anyone who is interested (read: the admin thinks that it has a function that will improve the workflow) can use it, but anyone who is not interested in the newer functions (or may be depend on an addon that is currently not available for 10.0) can stick with the old version. That is what stable stands for.
So, Debian has 10.0 ESR in the backports repository, so if that is what really concerns you it is a no-brainer to install the newer version. And that they will stick with 10 for Wheezy is only logical, it is the ESR version, the version that is meant for stable environments. You can be sure that once the next ESR is released that there will also be a backport for that.
 
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
So you decide which one has the newer software on one program? Compare the version numbers that matter: kernel, desktop environments, ..., Distrowatch has nice tables for that. You won't notice much differences.
The point of a stable distro is to keep changes of version numbers to an absolute minimum, otherwise they would be useless for corporate environments. This includes of course the browser. Mozilla's decision to release ESR versions came way later than the release of Squeeze, so they decided, as is normal Debian policy, not to upgrade Firefox in a point release, as Red Hat has done, but to release it in the backports repository, so that anyone who is interested (read: the admin thinks that it has a function that will improve the workflow) can use it, but anyone who is not interested in the newer functions (or may be depend on an addon that is currently not available for 10.0) can stick with the old version. That is what stable stands for.
So, Debian has 10.0 ESR in the backports repository, so if that is what really concerns you it is a no-brainer to install the newer version. And that they will stick with 10 for Wheezy is only logical, it is the ESR version, the version that is meant for stable environments. You can be sure that once the next ESR is released that there will also be a backport for that.
Tobi. I presume you use Debian, I do too at time in certain enviroments. The software that most of us use in REAL enviroments is outdate over all. "Firefox" was one example. Backports is not part of Debian. Backports is a repo to add more recent, yet stable programs to it for the LACK of NEWER programs. The OP wanted a stable distro in a package not a stable distro and then add patches to make it usable.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 01:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remusrm View Post
Tobi. I presume you use Debian, I do too at time in certain enviroments. The software that most of us use in REAL enviroments is outdate over all. "Firefox" was one example. Backports is not part of Debian. Backports is a repo to add more recent, yet stable programs to it for the LACK of NEWER programs. The OP wanted a stable distro in a package not a stable distro and then add patches to make it usable.
Some people order their salad with the dressing on the side, so they can add as much or as little dressing as desired.
 
Old 12-04-2012, 02:50 PM   #21
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remusrm View Post
Tobi. I presume you use Debian
Actually no, not really. In the past I was a Debian user and I have Debian still on my home-server, but only because it has a customized setup and I still was to lazy to replicate that on Slackware.

Quote:
The software that most of us use in REAL enviroments is outdate over all.
Care to explain what a REAL environment is? Are there FAKE environments?

Quote:
Backports is not part of Debian.
Backports is an official Debian repository, so yes, it is part of Debian and it is specifically meant for use with Debian stable, for the case that you need a newer version for your workflow. It still concentrates on the stable paradigm, otherwise you would see Firefox 17 in there, not Firefox 10 ESR.

Quote:
The OP wanted a stable distro in a package
Where do you see that? The OP only states that he wants a stable distro to run Gnome, KDE and XFCE.

Quote:
not a stable distro and then add patches to make it usable.
So now Debian is not only outdated, but also unusable? If you consider adding the backports repository to the sources.list as "adding patches", do you consider adding the non-free repositories or even things like the mozilla.debian.net as "adding patches" also? The mechanism is exactly the same.
 
  


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