I switched to Linux recently in anticipation of the crap that is Vista (so much bloat, so little substance). I've been a Windows power user for quite a while, but I find the restrictions MS is putting on Windows to facilitate DRM unacceptable. I decided to try Kubuntu after hearing that Ubuntu is a good begginner distro, and hearing KDE had an interface similar to Windows. However my experience with it has generally speaking been worse that I would've ever imagined. Here's just a brief summary of the issues I've had so far:

-I started with 64bit Kubuntu. No web browser plugins, no wine, most programs wouldn't compile without serious tweaking. I switched to 32bit after two weeks of complete frustration.

-Installing new video card driver's made Xorg quit working until I reinstalled the kubuntu-desktop package. Now just imagine how an average user who's been on Windows their whole life but doesn't know much about computers would react to this. They are booting to a command line, in an OS they know nothing about, with no obvious facilities for self-repair aside from a reinstall. I'm guessing they wouldn't be too happy about it. I wasn't either, because it was obvious whatever the problem was was beyond my current ability to diagnose, but that still makes me better off than most users, who might as well throw their computer out the window at that point.

-Xorg fails to enable 2d acceleration for no apparent reason. I had to put up with horrible window drawing performance for quite a while, and no amount of driver switching or reconfiguring made any difference. Ironically, using a composite window manager such as Beryl drastically incrased my performance. Unfourtunately I couldn't use it regularly as it gave me various screen drawing errors and was incompatible with KDE's desktop switching.

-Xorg starts enabling 2d acceleration for no apparent reason. I have no idea why, and if I had to reinstall Linux I'd probably never be able to reproduce the cirumstance that got it working.

-Opera, my favorite web browser, has crap for plugin support on Linux. The majority of plugins won't work or have bugs with it. The only way the mplayer plugins with work on it is by compiling and old version of them with a special configure switch. This information was particularely easy to dig up either. And no, I will not use Firefox. I have nothing against Firefox, but opera has more features, is faster, and hass better standards compliance. If you've never surfed with a trash bin for your tabs, you don't know what you're missing.

-KDE was moving my trash from a seporate partition into my home folder's trash bin. This was obviously extremely slow and annoying. What's more annoying, is that it never warned my the reason for this was that it couldn't access the partitions root folder to make the trash bin unless it was root, therby leaving me guessing as to what was going on. For all I knew, moving the files to the home folder was normal behavior. It was only by reading the specs for handling trash folders on freedesktop.org that I was able to solve the problem. I'm guessing a lot of people would've just lived with it and assumed the problem was that Linux sucked.

-Just in general, Linux GUI apps are not forthcoming with explanations when things start going wrong. Instead of detecting errors and telling you, it seems to think that you'll just automatically know what log file you need to read to diagnose a problem. Ironically, most command line apps tell you exactly what's wrong right off the bat, so a lot of the time you can figure out you problem by using the comand line to repeat what you were trying to do.

-Then again, in one situation KDE made a pretty good case for not having error messages pop up. I had set up KDE to use utorrent running under wine to handle my torrent files, since all of the linux torrent clients were giving me very crappy speed. But whenever I opened a torrent file an error message would pop up saying it failed to launch wine, when in fact, nothing had gone wrong. When utorrent was launched by opening a torrent file, instead of displaying an error message all the icons on my desktop would dissapear. This could only be fixed by closing utorrent, at which point the error message was displayed. So bascially, KDE was causing an error by displaying an error message. That kind of story really seems like it belongs it the Windows world... At any rate, the fix was to disable DCOP registration for torrent files, but I only figured that out by trail and error. No one else I talked to about the problem had any clue.

-I can't get USB flash drives working properly. This is an ongoing problem so I made a thread for it here:
linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?t=505776

-Things constantly behave counter-intuitively without giving me warning. For instance, after turning off power management, my screen saver was replaced with a black screen until I discoved (linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?p=2231757#post2231757) some obcure configuration option only availible in one of KDE's settings files. For god sakes, a screen saver is such a basic feature, there is no excuse for it not working. I've had a lot of complaints about Windows, but never that a component as basic as the screen saver wouldn't work.

I'm not trying to start a flamewar here, more than anything I'd just like to know if this level of inneptitude is common for most Linux distro's. Many people have told me they have had no such problems on their distros, so it's possible KDE/kubuntu just sucks, but I'd like to hear what other people think before I try a Gnome based distro.

Personally though, I blame a lot of my problems on the complete lack of intergration in the components that make up a Linux system. The system is way too dependant on configuration to get things to work, so it's no wonder you get issues like this. With this type of system it's safer to assume things are working than to report a problem (or even try to figure out if there is one), because you can't ever assume anything about the state of your interaction with all the seporate components. Even when all you're doing is writing a cog to fit somewhere in a set of predetermined standards, you can never fully anticipate how other people's interpretation of those standards may be different from yours. All you can really do is hack at something until it works, and hope that your assumptions about why it works are correct.

I really don't want to have to use Vista. With MS pumping up the proprietary features, lockouts, and restrictions, I'd rather just use XP for the rest of my life than "upgrade" to that. But if all Linux distros are as difficult to work with as Kubuntu has been, I may not have much choice. However, while I still think I'm correct in my opinion that Linux's shortcomings are due to deficiencies in the core design principles most Linux environments are based on, that doesn't mean no distro is capable of overcoming these issues and putting together something that really does "just work". I just don't want to waste any more time on something that doesn't work, and possibly never will.

Stick with Windows.

yes you made a good choice to pick kubuntu and kde is a nice (although at times some would say slow) interface.

is the 32 bit one working better? the ease of use between the 32 and 64bit versions i dont think would be different at all. although since most applications arent 64bit yet you would probably be fine sticking with the 32bit install. regarding installing programs you have synaptic probably installed with kubuntu, or the command line apt-get to easily install programs--use this tool to install programs 99% of the time where you can. regarding browser plugins search here or other sites on how to get it working. i have started using konqueror as my webbrowser and it is actually pretty good. to install flash i had to copy 2 files downloaded from the macromedia site to a folder and it worked, very simple.

did you install this with apt-get? a hardware related program such as this i would not use apt-get to install. this i would go to nvidias site download the latest driver and install it. the site has instructions on how to edit the Xorg configuration file after installing. its really pretty easy. again if you have tried this with no success create an appropriate thread for it in the appropriate forum. and yes i agree linux is difficult for the average windows user, and is why in my opion linux isnt as popular as it should be.

i agree linux does boggle my mind at times and i think it has a mind of its own.

i started using konqueror because of how it is integrated into KDE. i use firefox on windows but on linux and KDE i think it is horribly slow, ugly, and doesnt match anything else (window decorations, color schecme, etc). honestly give konqueror a shot for a while--bear with it and hopefully youll appreciate it as much as i do now.

run your GUI application FROM the command line when you notice its acting up. many of the times it will print output to the console window you ran it from, and hopefully when your random error occurs itll give you some hint as to what the solution is in the output.

i also read about how much people use linux and how much they know about it and how well it works for them.. but thats the thing, you have to learn it! i would call myself a windows power-user like yourself. i feel that trait has come to me by using windows my whole life. to become a linux power-user you actually need to research and learn, i think. realize there is not an overwhelming world of difference between say kubuntu and say suse. all distros are just a collection of (mostly the same) software. the linux kernel, GNU applications, system tools, etc, window manager (KDE i would say is the most popular--personal opinion). so again i think it comes down to how much you practice and use the system and how much time your willing to spend to learn it.

your blamming the wrong people! linux isnt an operating system--its just the core part that interacts with the hardware and allocates and manages resources to programs. this is why there are so many distributions of linux--each one has different software (and versions) included, and will use a different GUI or none at all. some will be made for security, others for ease of use, others for maximum control, etc etc. i dont think linux will ever 'just work'--windows doesnt work _100%_ of the time, nothing will or can be perfect and error-proof, because of us silly users. the big problem with linux and it not 'just work'ing is due to the lack of support from the big hardware manufacturers. they make hardware and develop drivers designed for windows--nothing else. linux users then go out and hack this code (or however) and eventually create a driver that works with linux. then again, thats just half the battle, the hardware. you also have to realize most of the software for linux is developed by not large corporations with thousands of staff working 40 hours a week--its created by people on their own time for free.

if you want to learn the ins and outs of linux (not a specific distribution) i would recommend giving slackware a shot. when i first tried linux i used ubuntu for afew weeks here and there. i also had many problems with it as you did and had a hard time figuring it out. i eventually ended up installing slackware and it doesnt include all the automated programs such as package management with dependency checking like apt-get, and wont do something you dont _tell_ it do to.

anyways its getting late.. good luck

Seriously, have you tried Vista? It's scary how restrictive it's getting. I still want to give Linux a go as my primary OS, but it's just frustrating to me that given the difficulty of setting up a working Linux environment, I don't see it ever taking away much of Micro$oft's market share. You know what really scares me? A generation of people raised not to question the fact they are not allowed to mess with the internal workings of their computer. A generation that would simply use a computer while accepting the fact they have no control over the software they use spying on them, or preventing them from viewing any "objectionable" content, or from even exercising freedom of speech. That's exactly the type of environment materializing around Windows right now. And Linux could be doing so much to fight that if it wasn't plagued by basic usability issues that make it unsuitable for anyone who isn't already an advanced computer user.

The ideal of course, would be a system whose transparency was only surpassed by it's simplicity and usability, but frankly, Linux is neither transparent, simple, or usable. In fact, without understanding how the system was developed, it's lack of adherence to the above ideals would be almost baffling. After my experience with Linux I'd almost say a project like Haiku is what we should be looking forward to. I always appreciated BeOS's simple elegant design, and I would've used it a lot more if it had ever properly supported my hardware. Too bad the Haiku project is running so far behind it doesn't look like it will ever become competitive with other OS's.

Incidentally, may I ask what everyone's obsession with making Unix based OS's I can think of more than a few ways in which the design of Unix is fundamentally flawed, or has been outgrown by the current needs of computers. I think the best way to go would be to start from scratch with a new OS from the ground up with a POSIX compatibility layer so you don't have a huge software deficit to start out with. I'm sure there's at least one person in the world who could come up with something better than Unix if they really tried.

Generally speaking yes. Part of the problem is there doesn't seem to be any tool that allows you to automatically install 32bit programs and their associated dependencies in a 64bit system. I don't know why this is, as it doesn't seems like it would be that difficult of a feature to implement...

That is in fact, exactly what I did.

The current installing automatically changed xorg.conf for you. Unfourtunately, the results of allowing it to do this can be somewhat unpredictable. One version of the driver I tried really messed up my refresh rate settings until I commented out a line.

Or you could design a program that wasn't brung to it's knees by a minor configuration error so you wouldn't force people to go out looking for a solution to a problem they never should've had in the first place. I like my option better, as it has the added benefit of not driving off potential users.

agreed. but you know, I still think Linux could do a lot better if the system was more integrated.

I used it for a bit before I got Opera installed, and to me it felt like returning to the dark ages. I missed panels, I missed sessions, I missed the customizability... There is just no browser out there as good as opera. Firefox with the right extensions comes close, but it still suffers from lack of customisability and various annoyances like text in forms not always getting saved when use the back button.

Yea, I figured that one out too, but frankly the command line output from a lot of programs isn't that easy to decipher. I find it annoying that many people who write Linux programs seem to assume if there's a problem you will just look at the command line output, so they don't need to even attempt to write meaningful error messages for the GUI. Still this is the least of my complaints really.

That is missing the point entirely. My problems are not the result of doing things that are particularely advanced, they are the result of performing tasks that are so easy on a Windows computer you could be rightly called an idiot for having any problems doing them. This is not a problem with my inability to perform tasks. All but one (the USB drive thing) of my real problems were solved in one way or another. But solving them under any circumstances could be so much easier and less time consuming. Since I started using Linux I feel like I've become a slave to the OS because I'm constantly having to research stuff to get anything done. The intuitive usability just isn't there.

I still think Windows works more often than Linux. This is just speaking from experince, but I've had almost as many issues come up with Linux in the past month as I had with Windows XP the entire time I used it. And while in XP, most of the problems were eventually patched and fixed, Linux will probably never have all of it's issues ironed out because of it's inherant reliance on unstable (in development terms) components.

That is a problem. Perhaps if Linux wasn't so obsessed with making things difficult for hardware manufacturers who only want to distribute binary drivers then that problem wouldn't exist. Seriously, if you are going to take up an ideological crusade against hardware manufacturers for lack of openess, you damn well better be sure you're not dependant on them for support.

I've actually been considering giving FreeBSD a shot. It seems like it's about as integrated as you get with an open Unix project. Definately does a better job with it that most Linux distros at any rate. But hell, if I could just solve my USB drive issue maybe I could live with Kubuntu for a while.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the encouragement.

My first time with Linux was kinda scary experience, after reading about it for awhile. But I was so sick of Windows and couldn't afford a Mac, that I tried it anyway.

I didn't have anybody to help me either but when I finally got Caldera's OpenLinux installed and got KDE, not sure which early version it was installed...I was like a kid in a candy store! I just stuck with it, although I did have dual boot setup.

And once you do get it working good, you're be ready to move on to the so-called harder distros, such as Sourcemage, Gentoo, Debian & Slackware.

**Also there is Apple's Mac computer**

Linux isn't work idiots

Well, the learning doesn't make you slave to a OS. Even you had to learn on how to do those things in windows too. Atleast I well free using linux as it doesn't give any excuses on why I can't change this and that... I can do anything that I like with it which is just what I want.

Which unstable components you mean? Kubuntu / Ubuntu is build from Debian unstable repositories so they tend to be unstable AFAIK (not a ubuntu user). Try something known from stability like Slackware. It doesn't give handholding but it works. If you want working desktop in no time, try the new Zenwalk, it has all codecs, mp3 playback etc out-of-box which might be a good distro.


Could you please explain this? Linux is making it harder for itself for asking hardware manufactures to make linux drivers?

Is your chipset supported by linux? Might cause some problems like that.

Let's see YOU write a sound interface that has to work on all known hardware... and not earn a cent for it.

Setting up Linux to work takes work... the same as every time I've had to install Windows for somebody. There's the inevitable search for the correct video card driver, network card driver, modem driver, sound card driver...

After that, I have to update to the latest service pack, install an antivirus program, antispyware software, and usually a firewall. You have to have Java, Macromedia Flash, the Shockwave player, and Quicktime at the minimum to use the net anymore. On most of the systems I've dealt with, I've had to fix the overlay settings so if they want to watch a video, they can.

Contrast this process with my experience with Slackware 11 on my laptop, just this month.
Video: I had to recompile a couple of things, and needed a couple special additions to xorg.conf, and I had 3D DRI working. I can play games on it now that my Windows install, with the proprietary drivers from the manufacturer would have choked on.
Audio: I spent three days fighting an audio bug. Were I in Windows, I would be screwed at that point... but the fix was as simple as unmuting a setting in Kmix.
Wifi: Compiled an open-source driver, and my wifi works like a dream.
Ethernet: Driver came with the distro. Works fine.
Modem: I've gotten the modem to work in Linux before, I just need to compile the driver... been too lazy because I haven't needed it.
Card Reader: I think I need a kernel recompile. Didn't really use it anyway.
Windows apps I can't live without: Work just fine in Wine. Installing it was as simple as downloading the package from a repository.
Java in Firefox: One symlink, because Java came prepackaged with Slack 11. It took under five minutes to install it, as opposed to the 20+minute process under Windows.
Flash/Shockwave: Downloaded the newest flash beta from Adobe. I can happily watch the Ultimate Showdown or play Qwerty Warrior.
Quicktime/assorted other online video: The mplayer-plugin took care of my problem. One more symlink to activate it.
Antivirus: Don't really need it, but installed clamav anyway. Works great.
Firewall: Once again, mostly for kicks... Kmyfirewall.
Anti-spyware: Don't need it. Not even available, I don't think.

I estimate that the total time I spent fixing my Slackware installation, including the install itself, took less time than fixing the problems in my pre-installed copy of Windows XP Home... and I don't even include removing the crapware that came with it in that estimation. I'm not a Linux power-user... but I was a Windows power-user. I've just spent a lot of time reading up on Linux... when I have a question, I Google it, then I ask. When I encounter an error... I Google it. Usually, I can track down the answer. If not... there's all sorts of places to ask.

So, my best advice to you, is to get yourself a couple of live-cds (Knoppix and Slax are pretty good choices) and play. If Knoppix gives you 3D acceleration automagically, find out why. Copy the xorg.conf over to your main install, and see what happens. If Slax works well with your USB drives, find out why.

But most of all, don't give up. Learning something about Windows means digging through the marketing until you find out what you need. Learning something about Linux means digging through the tech-speak. Find a couple good Linux news sites, and visit them regularly. http://www.tuxmachines.org is a good general-purpose site to get news, product announcements, reviews, how-tos, and editorials. Occasionally, you'll find exactly what you need.

download and burn using cdrecord

Yeah you're right. Linux sucks and is fundamentally flawed. All of that pesky learning just isn't worth it.

Just to see if I can get you going, I'll mail you a

FC6 install DVD!

Deal: If it works and you are happier, mail me back

the DVD or some blanks.

DVD +R DVD -R 4.7 do not work.

The right blanks are expensive and show 8+ gig on the label

I paid $4+tax for the right blank.

I think I can show you a fun Linux...not perfect but better than XP Prof.

Linux isn't for everyone. Linux is attractive to people that have a natural inclination to seek out solutions to their problems. If you'd prefer to be spoon fed rather than increasing your knowledge base, Linux probably isn't the choice for you. Stick with Windows. I've never felt enslaved by Linux. Rather the opposite, I feel empowered. I'd bet many Linux users will tell you the same thing. But, then, I don't want a Lexus that parallel parks itself either.

You have to research stuff because you don't understand the tool. With a month of experience, how much did you expect to understand? Being a self-proclaimed Windows power user isn't a garantee that you understand computer hardware and software design and theory well enough to hit the ground running with Linux.

I have two twelve year olds that installed Kubuntu/Xubuntu, regularly update their systems, and install/remove packages to and from their machines by themselves. They didn't have nearly the problems you're having and neither have I with Gentoo or CLFS.

Neither will Windows have all of it's issues ironed out. Patches for OSS are released constantly. Linux doesn't inherently rely on unstable components. You don't have to use bleeding edge versions of the software. Both Slackware and Debian Stable use "tried and true" versions of the various software out there. You chose to use Kubuntu which is a more bleeding edge distro. You need to take some time to understand what you're installing on your system before you make sweeping generalizations.

BTW, you're USB thumb drive problem seems to be Ubuntu specific as documented in Ubuntu Bug #17881. See, you have to be willing to do a little research. I don't even use one of the *buntu's, but my knowledge base has been expanded.

HI,
I had lots of fun learning how to break winwoes and decided to learn more,
I ve found each Linux has issues that are a bit of a challenge with a learning curve,
The easiest Distro for me that new Sabayon it uses a different style loader and fixes broken links automatically when updated and finds all required dependancies.
Many of the other systems require you search or know whats required example to play dvd's you need a couple programs additional to that lbdvdcss thingy.
Try to find one that works for you and visit the forum that supports it I ve learned alot in only 1 year. And I like that sabayon instal disk the best so far.
Doug
PS there a a few free boot loaders to have more than one OS it will require some reading to get it to work.

Personally, I think that OSX is amazing. I actually haven't got to use Linux yet, but OSX is just so perfect. And teamed wiht Parallels Desktop, it is just unstopable.

It sounds as if you've been working very hard, but in your situation I would have dumped Kubuntu long ago. In fact, I did! I've been using Linux exclusively for 18 months on my home system; previously I had used MS since the late 80s. I've done this all alone, with the exception of help on forums - and I'm no power user, either.

The way I've done this is mainly determination, but also by trying quite a few distributions to see which ones work well with my hardware. That is one area where Linux is deficient IMO; not all distros work well with all hardware.

First, I installed Mandriva. Worked well, detected my hardware fine. I didn't like it.
2nd, Mepis, and it couldn't see the internet.
3rd, Feora Core 3, and it worked fine. Plus, I liked it - so much that I installed the new Fedora Core 4 online. From that point on, my machine accessed the hard drive constantly.
4th and 5th, Debian and FreeBSD were both too hard to configure for my taste.
6th, SUSE 9.1 worked well except for the monitor settings, which was a pain.
7th, SUSE 9.3 worked well and didn't have monitor problems. Detected all my hardware. I liked it and kept it for about 9 months.

After that, things get a little hazy, because distro-hopping was in my blood. I've tried PCLinuxOS, Slackware, DSL, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Knoppix, ZenWalk, CentOS, Vector, Xandros, Arch - I could go on. Now I'm very happy with Fedora Core again, and I expect I will remain with FC/Red Hat long-term.

What I found was that - categorically - SUSE, Slackware, and Red Hat-based distros work fine on my system, and Debian-based distros do not. You can find a distro that works with your hardware and it won't require as much effort as you put into working with Kubuntu.

If you still want to use Linux, get live CDs or DVDs whenever possible. If the distro works with your hardware live, then it will work installed. Don't get so caught up in comparisons with Windows. Strengths and weaknesses on both sides, of course. I reinstalled Windows only a couple of times shortly after I was happily running SUSE 9.3 Pro, and that was to restore a backup to pull off a few files I needed.

I run only a software firewall, check for rootkits occasionally, no anti-virus, and no anti-spyware. I run Opera, installed from their site.

You're dating. You don't just pick one and live happily ever after.

[edited typos, added note about Opera]

i second giving fedora a try before you give up. it seems to work "out of the box" better than most. there is a learning curve coming from windows to linux -- maybe win power users even have a harder time b/c they're so familiar with how everything works in windows and expect linux to act the same way. but just stick with it and my guess is you'll be feeling comfortable with it in no time.