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Old 12-04-2016, 05:52 AM   #1
fatmac
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Devuan - Devuan based distros


Whilst having been interested in, (& contributed a small about to help with the cost of hosting), the Devuan project since its inception, I am only now getting around to trying it out for myself & came across a distro called MiyoLinux based on Devuan

I think this distro is what software freedom is all about, a perfect base for a hobbyist to have exactly what they want as regards to programs.

It comes set up to access the internet with Firefox & wifi drivers, & that's just about all, perfect basic live/installable distro.

http://miyolinux.weebly.com/


Edit: If you have found any other Devuan based distros, please add them to this thread.

Last edited by fatmac; 12-04-2016 at 05:55 AM.
 
Old 12-13-2016, 02:38 AM   #2
durval
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
Whilst having been interested in, (& contributed a small about to help with the cost of hosting), the Devuan project since its inception, I am only now getting around to trying it out for myself & came across a distro called MiyoLinux based on Devuan
Unfortunately MIYOLinux is no more:
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=62


Quote:
Edit: If you have found any other Devuan based distros, please add them to this thread.
I'm using Refracta, which is also based on Devuan, and whose refractainstaller (and a few other tools) were used in MIYO:
http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta/

Also, in the new "official-unofficial" Devuan forum where the first URL above is located, there's a page listing all Devuan derivatives: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=9

Cheers,
--
Durval.
 
Old 12-15-2016, 10:50 AM   #3
jens
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Honestly ... Why?

*Does it have a purpose?
*Does it help you in any way Debian doesn't?

All I a see is a needless extra layer from some grumpy dubious people with very little understanding about software packaging.
I find it almost disgusting how they (the self-acclaimed-devuan-devs/frauds) keep telling people how they're doing this all for software and user freedom, while only restricting people in choosing their init/whatever system.

If you need Devuan for using alternative init systems in Debian, you're doing it wrong.
Their's simply no valid argument for using a fake-fork that pretends to be a complete distribution while obviously still depending/leeching a 100% on Debian.

PS:
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against *real* forks or independent/external repositories.
Thing is, Devuan is lying about being a fork and not really useful as an additional repo.

Last edited by jens; 12-15-2016 at 06:22 PM.
 
Old 12-18-2016, 06:41 AM   #4
fsmithred
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Miyolinux is not gone yet. A new iso was uploaded yesterday with some fixes.
https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=340#p340
 
Old 12-18-2016, 09:42 AM   #5
fatmac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Honestly ... Why?
*Does it have a purpose?
*Does it help you in any way Debian doesn't?
Why - Because Devuan will listen to it's user base, & not steam roller through things like systemd.

Does it have a purpose? - Yes, if it wasn't for Devuan splitting off from Debian, Debian users were likely have found themselves tied in to systemd, with no other choice.

Does it help you in any way Debian doesn't? - Yes, it guarantees freedom, & not to have a governing bueraucracy of dictatorship.

Edit: By the way, Devuan developers were Debian developers, they are not leaching from another distro, it is their work.

Last edited by fatmac; 12-18-2016 at 09:47 AM.
 
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Old 12-19-2016, 09:31 AM   #6
jens
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Seriously..., did you even bother to read their website?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
Why - Because Devuan will listen to it's user base, & not steam roller through things like systemd.
It's the other way around, all they do is blacklisting packages, and therefor removing user choices:
https://devuan.org/os/packages/list/blacklist

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
Does it have a purpose? - Yes, if it wasn't for Devuan splitting off from Debian, Debian users were likely have found themselves tied in to systemd, with no other choice.
PR Lies.
*I'm still using sysv in some Debian stable and even Debian sid installations without issues.
*Devuan provides less init options, please stop turning this around.
*Their sysv package is the same and depends a 100% on Debian.
*They've never split as they've never joined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
Does it help you in any way Debian doesn't? - Yes, it guarantees freedom, & not to have a governing bueraucracy of dictatorship.
Even if i would agree with your bold "dictatorship" claim (an NO, I obviously don't), this would still be false.
Apart from making noise and setting up some useless bricked Debian repos, they've achieved absolutely nothing:

Devuan's stable packages:
https://devuan.org/os/packages/list/native-to-devuan
Yes that's ... nothing.

Devuan's (fake-)"forked" packages:
https://devuan.org/os/packages/list/forked-from-debian
... mostly nothing (apart from some unnecessary re-branding and weird localization).

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
Edit: By the way, Devuan developers were Debian developers, they are not leaching from another distro, it is their work.
Name one.
Submitting bug reports for a derivate does not make you a DD.
Their full list: https://devuan.org/os/team/
Ironically, they even mention Debian's sysvinit package maintainer under "Board of trustees" ...

EDIT: ... and again, I have nothing aiganst what they're doing (though it could and should be done under a Debian umbrella instead of promoting it as an alternative), it is mostly their false claims what bothers me.

Last edited by jens; 12-19-2016 at 10:14 AM.
 
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Old 12-19-2016, 10:21 AM   #7
cynwulf
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Devuan is not a project led by Devuan developers, but by a group known as the VUA (the self proclaimed "Veteran UNIX Admins").

antiX has managed to put out a working systemd free system - the Devuan camp have been at this for two years and are still hacking away at Debian to remove bits of systemd (such as libsystemd0). antiX are not calling their work a "fork".

I wouldn't go so far as jens, but I am and always have been highly skeptical of it. The sheer amount of FUD which circulates around this particular project is disturbing.

You cannot always run a systemd free system with Debian, as in many cases systemd is still pulled in and runs, just not as PID1 (with systemd-shim). This is typical when installing gnome, etc. The are however much better alternatives (such as Slackware, gentoo, etc) which are truly non systemd dependent for those that want that.
 
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Old 12-19-2016, 12:48 PM   #8
fatmac
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@jens
You asked & I answered - I'm not going to waste my time arguing.

@cynwulf
As you can see, parts of systemd are still being pulled in on a non systemd Debian system.
This is what Devuan is about, being totally free of systemd.
 
Old 12-19-2016, 12:56 PM   #9
fatmac
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As an aside, I have been using Debian & Debian based distros since 1999, I love apt, but I also prefer the unix way, that's why I don't want systemd on my computers.
 
Old 12-19-2016, 06:26 PM   #10
anticapitalista
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fatmac - hi!

Last I tested, Devuan and its derivatives included libsystemd0.

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?di...-beta2#pkglist

antiX doesn't. So we actually have a 'purer' nosystemd distro than Devuan (even more so if we talk about testing and unstable).
 
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:18 AM   #11
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
As you can see, parts of systemd are still being pulled in on a non systemd Debian system.
And on a supposedly systemd free, Devuan system...

But that's beside the point. Devuan have simply avoided gnome, gdm and other software which will pull in systemd packages. That's not hard, plenty of systemd free distributions and Debian derivatives have achieved the same.

In fact I can install gnome 3.20.2 (which went into Debian unstable in March this year) in OpenBSD and no systemd to be found.

http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=artic...20140219085851
https://www.bsdfrog.org/tmp/undeadly-gnome.webm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
This is what Devuan is about, being totally free of systemd.
There is also a list here: http://without-systemd.org/wiki/inde...t_installation

The vast majority of which have managed to recompile packages to remove dependencies on systemd and put out a working system.
 
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:39 AM   #12
Turbocapitalist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
In fact I can install gnome 3.20.2 (which went into Debian unstable in March this year) in OpenBSD and no systemd to be found.
Only for a while longer. Listen / read what the developer who ported it had to say. Removing systemd is becoming a sisyphean task as it both spreads deeper into what it has already infected and infects more packages.

In addition to the technical problems with the design and implementation, there is also the egregious manner in which systemd was hammered into Debian that turned me off it. They were especially vigorous in harassment and personal attacks on anyone even questioning systemd. I remember back when it was just a technical discussion, I had looked into it and thought, mistakenly, that there would be no way that the DD's would let us down and go with systemd. They screwed us. And it also took out Ubuntu and several other distros in one fell swoop because they depended on Debian.

It's fine that Red Hat makes money but they should find a way to do that without monkeywrenching the rest of us. Unfortunately, they seem to be following through on M$ designs in the Halloween Documents regarding decommoditizing GNU/Linux.
 
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Old 12-20-2016, 04:12 AM   #13
fatmac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anticapitalista View Post
fatmac - hi!

Last I tested, Devuan and its derivatives included libsystemd0.

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?di...-beta2#pkglist

antiX doesn't. So we actually have a 'purer' nosystemd distro than Devuan (even more so if we talk about testing and unstable).
Hi anti, I'm still running AntiX as my main OS.

But I have to admit that I didn't know we were totally free of systemd baggage, which is the base intention of Devuan; so that anyone can easily create a systemd free derivative.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 04:22 AM   #14
fatmac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
... in OpenBSD and no systemd to be found.
Quite so, but if I remember right, they had a bit of a job compiling gnome without it.
 
Old 12-20-2016, 04:56 AM   #15
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocapitalist View Post
Only for a while longer. Listen / read what the developer who ported it had to say.
I'm well aware: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=artic...20161109030623

(though it's not exactly ruled out and doesn't mean that someone else won't step up to port it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocapitalist View Post
Removing systemd is becoming a sisyphean task as it both spreads deeper into what it has already infected and infects more packages.
I see, so systemd is an "infection" because the gnome project have chosen to build their desktop environment around it? If gnome want to head in that direction, not much can be done to stop them. This is not the first questionable thing they have ever done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocapitalist View Post
In addition to the technical problems with the design and implementation, there is also the egregious manner in which systemd was hammered into Debian that turned me off it.
An opinion piece - heavy on rhetoric, low on fact, but as with anything agenda driven it gets linked and relinked and presented as factual time and time again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
Quite so, but if I remember right, they had a bit of a job compiling gnome without it.
Called "porting".

Last edited by cynwulf; 12-20-2016 at 07:54 AM.
 
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