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Old 09-30-2013, 04:34 AM   #1
albertjan
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Mint KDE, Dedian KDE, Kubuntu... what's the difference?


Hi,

My computer is getting old so I am planning to buy a new one. I currently run Ubuntu (the latest LTS, I don't recall the number) on my PC and Mint XFCE
on my laptop. I just cannot get used to unity (I miss something simple as alt-tab, for instance). So now I would like to try something new. Mint KDE, Dedian KDE, Kubuntu all seem nice, but they're so similar! Plus or minus a few codecs, are there any differences? I will be using the comuter for both day-to-day use and software development.

Thank you!

Regards,
Albert-Jan
 
Old 09-30-2013, 05:03 AM   #2
albertjan
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Ok, I found some useful info already in the "similar" threads links:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ubuntu-931524/
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...erence-737534/

Does the switch from Ubuntu to Kubuntu (sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop, preceded by a loong list of software that is removed) still work?

Regards,
Albert-Jan
 
Old 09-30-2013, 05:11 AM   #3
cascade9
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Kubuntu and Mint KDE use all the typical ubuntu stuff (e.g. 'sudo'). That is changing, as ubuntu unity is going to its own in-house rippoff of wayland, called mir. Kubuntu and Mint are not switching to Mir.

Right now it doesnt matter much, in the future it could lead to more issues (as canonical isnt at all interested in alternative desktops to unity, and are focusing all eforts on mir and other in house projects).

Debian KDE does everything the debian way, and debian isnt trying to push its own x server replacement.

Yes, the 'change ubuntu to kubuntu' trick does still work, just make sure you get the right command for the version you are using. This link for 12.04 LTS-

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purekubuntuprecise
 
Old 09-30-2013, 08:35 AM   #4
TobiSGD
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Instead of using Debian KDE I would recommend to try Kwheezy, which is a preconfigured Debian KDE (and 100% compatible) with some neat extras, should give you are more polished experience than the (already good) Debian KDE.
 
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:50 AM   #5
m.a.l.'s pa
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For my tastes, Kwheezy comes with too much stuff, but it sure is nice to see another KDE distro based on the current Debian Stable. Too bad Mepis doesn't have one out yet. Kwheezy does look nice -- haven't done an installation, but I've checked out some live sessions.

I have both Kubuntu 12.04 (LTS) and Debian Wheezy KDE installed here; very similar, but the Wheezy KDE installation required a bit more tweaking at the beginning.

I've added KDE to Ubuntu in the past, and that works out fine, but these days I prefer to install Kubuntu instead of adding KDE to my Ubuntu installation. For me, it seems a bit much to have two full DEs installed on the same system (but I like to have something like Openbox along with KDE, for example).
 
Old 09-30-2013, 01:02 PM   #6
DavidMcCann
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In my experience, it's best to use a distro with its default interface. That's the one most users have and (more importantly) the one most developers have. It's the one that gets the most attention.

Kubuntu, for example, is one or two developers putting together an installation disk with stuff out of the Ubuntu repository. That comes from Debian Unstable. Do the Canonical team check KDE before taking it? How many Debian developers are using it? Sometimes Kubuntu's great, sometimes it isn't.

If you like KDE, you could use
Mepis (new version due shortly), based on Debian Stable.
SolydXK, based on Debian testing and modeled on LMDE in its approach.
PCLinuxOS, independent, rolling-release without being bleeding-edge, very good quality.
OpenSUSE, independent, great so long as you have a recent computer.
 
Old 09-30-2013, 02:03 PM   #7
albertjan
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Hi all,

Thanks for your replies. I'll download a few images and check them out. Curious what other Debian-specific things there are besides not having sudo (I would miss that!). I heard about mir on Ars Technica and I thought it was still in a very early stage of development, but: http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/.

Best wishes,
Albert-Jan
 
Old 09-30-2013, 04:19 PM   #8
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
Kubuntu, for example, is one or two developers putting together an installation disk with stuff out of the Ubuntu repository.
It is hard to get actual numbers of Kubuntu developers, but from what I found on the net:
- Two fulltime developers paid by Blue Systems
- Kubuntu council, 6 members, but not only developers here
- Kubuntu is alone in Brazil's schools deployed to over 500.000 desktop PCs and runs the over 1.100 schools of the Canary Islands

So I doubt that there are only two developers working on Kubuntu.
 
Old 10-01-2013, 03:50 AM   #9
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertjan View Post
Thanks for your replies. I'll download a few images and check them out. Curious what other Debian-specific things there are besides not having sudo (I would miss that!).
Debian can use 'sudo', its just not setup by default with debian (and by default, debian also has a root account, which ubuntu disables).

Quote:
Originally Posted by albertjan View Post
I heard about mir on Ars Technica and I thought it was still in a very early stage of development, but: http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/.
It is in a very early stage to development.

Quote:
Mir was announced by Canonical on 4 March 2013.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_%28software%29

Some other insteresting info on the wikipedia page as well.

Dont believe the canoncial hype!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
In my experience, it's best to use a distro with its default interface. That's the one most users have and (more importantly) the one most developers have. It's the one that gets the most attention.

Kubuntu, for example, is one or two developers putting together an installation disk with stuff out of the Ubuntu repository. That comes from Debian Unstable.
Based on debian 'Unstable' only for non-LTS releases. Which are now IMO a joke, 9 months support is too short.

I can see the point of the 'use the default interface'...but I disgaree to some degree.

Using TobiSGDs 'Kwheezy' as an example, sure, its developed to use KDE 4.X, not gnome like standard debian. It even describes itself as-

Quote:
Not so much a distribution based on Debian, but rather "a well configured Debian KDE installer".
http://www.kwheezy.com/en/

But since its got other 'non-standard' debian software, e.g. firefox replacing iceweasel, its a modified debian.....and I'd be willing to bet there are more developers/users running vanilla debian with KDE than there are Kwheezy developers/users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
It is hard to get actual numbers of Kubuntu developers, but from what I found on the net:
- Two fulltime developers paid by Blue Systems
- Kubuntu council, 6 members, but not only developers here
- Kubuntu is alone in Brazil's schools deployed to over 500.000 desktop PCs and runs the over 1.100 schools of the Canary Islands

So I doubt that there are only two developers working on Kubuntu.
Maybe I'm playing with definitions, but IIRC up to 2009 there was only 1 paid developer for kubuntu. I'm pretty sure they hired 2 more in 2009/2010, but the droped them later.

I wouldnt be suprised if the only 2 currently paid developers for kubuntu are the ones at Blue Systems. (Jonathan Riddell and Aurélien Gâteau). From Jonathan Riddells Feb 2012 'Kubuntu Status' message, and knowing how canoncial operates, I'd guess it is now developed entirely by volunteers.

Quote:
Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be
funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04. Canonical wants to treat
Kubuntu in the same way as the other community flavors such as
Edubuntu, Lubuntu, and Xubuntu, and support the projects with
infrastructure. This is a big challenge to Kubuntu of course and KDE
as well.

The practical changes are I won't be able to work on KDE bits in my
work time after 12.04 and there won't be paid support for versions
after 12.04.
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ku...ry/005782.html

The Kubuntu council doesnt count IMO.

Quote:
Kubuntu is by 5/1 controlled by the community, Ubuntu (the desktop distribution) is not. You might wonder how I ended up with 5/1. Well, the Kubuntu Council (pretty much in all cases the highest authority within Kubuntu) consists of 6 members, of which 5 are not working for Canonical.
http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2010/...is-not-ubuntu/

Though you do have a point, even if its just half a million+ users and no developers, it can still help.
 
Old 10-01-2013, 07:57 AM   #10
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
I wouldnt be suprised if the only 2 currently paid developers for kubuntu are the ones at Blue Systems. (Jonathan Riddell and Aurélien Gâteau). From Jonathan Riddells Feb 2012 'Kubuntu Status' message, and knowing how canoncial operates, I'd guess it is now developed entirely by volunteers.
After being dropped by Canonical those Jonathan Riddell and Aurélien Gâteau were hired by Blue Systems to work on Kubuntu, as you also have stated. I don't quite get why you think that now only volunteers work on Kubuntu when you actually know that there are at least two paid developers.
 
Old 10-02-2013, 02:42 AM   #11
cascade9
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TobiSGD, I am not sure exactly what deal was struck between Blue Systems and Canonical, I havent dug around on old posts long enough to make an educated guess really.

But if its the way it looks superficially, Blue Systems pays Jonathan Riddell and Aurélien Gâteau. While there are paid developers, Canonical isnt paying them, which as far as they are concerned makes the whole project supported only by 'volunteers'.

Unless they are being paid with some 'Blue Systems gets money from people paying for support for Kubuntu 12.04' or even more complex formula.
 
Old 10-02-2013, 07:35 AM   #12
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
TobiSGD, I am not sure exactly what deal was struck between Blue Systems and Canonical, I havent dug around on old posts long enough to make an educated guess really.

But if its the way it looks superficially, Blue Systems pays Jonathan Riddell and Aurélien Gâteau. While there are paid developers, Canonical isnt paying them, which as far as they are concerned makes the whole project supported only by 'volunteers'.

Unless they are being paid with some 'Blue Systems gets money from people paying for support for Kubuntu 12.04' or even more complex formula.
Blue Systems (which by the way also employ seven other KDE developers, including the main Kwin developer Martin Grässlin, and also sponsor Mint's KDE edition and some KDE related projects) are the developers of Netrunner (based on Kubuntu) and offer a free cloud-based storage service.

But in reality it seems that, at least for now, there is a rich German philantropist which likes to sponsor KDE and related projects, as you can see from the Wikipedia article about Blue Systems:
Quote:
According to Blue Systems employee Aurélien Gâteau, "Blue Systems does not have a business model, at least for now".
Having said that, Netrunner comes with codecs and stuff like VLC preinstalled, has an edition aimed at privacy and these principles:
Quote:
Power-up, not dumb-down
Include add-ons, codecs, customizations
Avoid lock-ins, favor free(libre) alternatives if possible
I haven't looked at it, nut it seems also to be one of the distributions the OP might want to have a look at.
 
Old 10-02-2013, 08:52 PM   #13
frankbell
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Quote:
In my experience, it's best to use a distro with its default interface. That's the one most users have and (more importantly) the one most developers have. It's the one that gets the most attention.
I agree completely, if your role is support. When I worked support for piece of third-party Windows software, we in support never customized our Windows desktops, because we knew that most of our callers would be looking at a default desktop.

For personal use, I would say, go with whatever floats your boat. For me, it's either Fluxbox or E17, though sometimes I play around with others just to get to know them.

Gnome and KDE have far too many bells and whistles, too much glitz and glimmer, and I really do not like how the Gnome 3 interface works, not one jot, not one tittle.

As for Unity, it's straw that broke this camel's back as regards Ubuntu.
 
Old 10-04-2013, 03:21 PM   #14
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Just my 5 cents. This question should be split to 2 ones: mint kde vs kubuntu and debian vs ubuntu.
1. Last time I tried Linuxmint kde (a couple of years ago) it had too few developers. So once a new version of regular linuxmint was released it took a while to release a new kde version. Moreover it had small issues here and there. Another problem with mint for me was that LM didn't support release upgrades. You could do it manually, but every time I did it I had ussues. I finally ended installing kubuntu. It was more stable for me and I never had a problem with upgrading to a new version. Overall regardless of your choice you have a 100 % Ubuntu - compatible distro.

2. Debian is well known for being rock solid, but a bit outdated. I mean stable or at least testing of course. Its rolling releases work like a charm. All you have to do to upgrade to a newer version is to modify souces.list and apt-get dist-upgrade. That makes it an excellent choice for servers. On the other hand being outdated means having outdated drivers. Some times it can give you pain if don't want to compile your own kernel (IMHO there are lots of better distros for doing that kind of things). Personally I had issues with a wifi driver on debian I hadn't have on ubuntu. I found it took much more time to setup a debian desktop than an ubuntu one. Another Ubuntu advantage are repositories and packages. ATM Ubuntu is a de-facto linux desktop standard. If there is a commercial program, you will surely find a package for Ubuntu. For an open source program most probably there will be an Ubuntu package. Ubuntu packages sometimes work in debian, sometimes they don't. Definitely one shouldn't abuse installing Ubuntu packages on Debian. Ubuntu has PPAs as well. So no problem to install nightly builds, bleeding edge stuff, etc.

Last edited by redfox2807; 10-04-2013 at 03:23 PM.
 
Old 10-05-2013, 05:15 AM   #15
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
But in reality it seems that, at least for now, there is a rich German philantropist which likes to sponsor KDE and related projects, as you can see from the Wikipedia article about Blue Systems:
I'd seen that. While I'd really like to know what exactly is happening with Blue Systems/Canonical, its not really clear, and I dont think its going to be spelt out anywhere...

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
1. Last time I tried Linuxmint kde (a couple of years ago) it had too few developers. So once a new version of regular linuxmint was released it took a while to release a new kde version. Moreover it had small issues here and there.
Not really an issue of 'too few deleopers' IMO, its just the Mint developers have KDE low on the priority list. MATE and Cinnamon get released 1st, then Xfce, then KDE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
2. Debian is well known for being rock solid, but a bit outdated. I mean stable or at least testing of course. Its rolling releases work like a charm. All you have to do to upgrade to a newer version is to modify souces.list and apt-get dist-upgrade.
Umm..testing isnt outdated.

Depending on how your sources.list is setout, you might not even have to change the list at all (if for example you have 'stable' not 'wheezy', though IIRC debian now suggests using the relase name, not 'stable').

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
ATM Ubuntu is a de-facto linux desktop standard.
Not anymore, if it ever was. Unity and Mir are ubuntu only, and are most likely going to stay that way.

BTW, debian has more packages than ubuntu.
 
  


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