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zghh 10-16-2008 05:46 AM

Gnome/openbox stability
 
Hi,

On linux hardy, I'd like to use gnome with openbox as a window manager instead of metacity (there is an annoying bug in metacity: new firefox window often does not appears on top but behind thunderbird).

Is gnome/openbox completely stable as gnome/metacity is ? I'd like to use only stable softwares on this pc as it will be used by a person that has no computer knowledges.

Thanks for any information

Simon Bridge 10-16-2008 11:46 PM

Quote:

there is an annoying bug in metacity: new firefox window often does not appears on top but behind thunderbird
Please provide the bug report reference when talking about bugs.

Your question on stability seems to have been answered:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5977097

zghh 10-17-2008 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Bridge (Post 3312941)
Please provide the bug report reference when talking about bugs.
[/url]

Well, I don't know if there is bug (even don't know where the bugs are declared etc ...), maybe it's not a bug as the same thing happens with kde, to me, it looks like a bug that a new firefox window does not come on top but behind thunderbird, but maybe it is not..


Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Bridge (Post 3312941)

Your question on stability seems to have been answered:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5977097

Yes, I asked on different forums to have more opinion (as gnome/openbox is not widely used as gnome/metacity for instance)

Simon Bridge 10-17-2008 09:55 PM

Quote:

Well, I don't know if there is bug (even don't know where the bugs are declared etc ...), maybe it's not a bug as the same thing happens with kde, to me, it looks like a bug that a new firefox window does not come on top but behind thunderbird, but maybe it is not..
But is it a bug in metacity? firefox? thunderbird? None of these may be buggy, yet there may still be implementation troubles... I'll give you an example:

This sort of thing used to get reported against gnome when the developers added a focus-stealing prevention thingy. It took a while for the apps to catch up. As a result, sometimes focus would not get passed correctly. None of the code could be legitimately claimed to be "buggy", exactly. It was just that a new feature was slow-ish to be implemented.

Since a bug is generally considered a result of sloppy programming, it is poor ettiquette to label something as a bug without knowing for sure that it is in fact one. Bear in mind, many of the core developers and maintainers have accounts here. You are insulting the very people you want to help you. Never say "there is a bug with program foo", say "I have a problem with program foo". If it turns out to be an actual bug, then you will be thanked. Even if you are sure it is a bug and can point to confirmed bug reports, this is still a good idea.

In your case:
What you have described is that a new window (firefox) called from within thunderbird does not get focus (appear on top and active).

Since the same happens in KDE, that kinda rules out metacity. You have no reason to believe that installing a new WM will make any difference.

If firefox gets focus when called from another email client - then it's probably thunderbird. Go to the thunderbird page and it will tell you how to report a bug. But first, check the forums to make sure nobody has seen this before. T-bird and F-fox are very commonly used together so it is unlikely you are the first.

Projects like thunderbird rely on user feedback for their development.

However - I have not seen this in Mozillazine (not recently). You'd think someone would have reported it before. So it's probably something you are doing.

How did you get thunderbird to use firefox as the default browser?

zghh 10-18-2008 10:17 AM

"How did you get thunderbird to use firefox as the default browser?"

In gnome preferences.

As I said, maybe it's a bug, maybe not.

The behavior I was looking for is done by icewm, openbox, gnome/openbox

Sure I tested it in gnome/openbox before asking about it's stability.

Now, if it's a metacity bug or feature, everyone can have its own opinion. Here is what metacity developper says about that:


http://blogs.gnome.org/metacity/2007/12/24/stacking/

In my opinion, firefox window should come on top, just ask to persons that are not working in computers (the pc I'm setting up is for one of these person) but metacity developper seems to think different.

I did not want to insult anyone, and this is YOUR interpretation of what I said, not mine !

Simon Bridge 10-19-2008 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zghh (Post 3314574)
"How did you get thunderbird to use firefox as the default browser?"

In gnome preferences.

Have you tried also setting it in thunderbird's preferences? IIRC: you need to alter the commandline thunderbird calls.
a-la: http://www.gjdv.at/snippets/linux/th...efault_browser

Quote:

As I said, maybe it's a bug, maybe not.
You need to read the advice link in my sig.

Quote:

The behavior I was looking for is done by icewm, openbox, gnome/openbox

Sure I tested it in gnome/openbox before asking about it's stability.
OK - but you didn't say so.

Quote:

Now, if it's a metacity bug or feature, everyone can have its own opinion. Here is what metacity developper says about that:
http://blogs.gnome.org/metacity/2007/12/24/stacking/
This is about self-raising in a stack, and is a policy clarification.

Quote:

In my opinion, firefox window should come on top,
I agree, this is a desirable feature present on my machine.

It is also desirable for an http link in an email to open in an existing instance of firefox, in a new tab. That may be on a different desktop - so it is undesirable to automatically shift to the open link in that case (trust me). Thunderbird has settings to fine-tune this sort of behavior.

Quote:

just ask to persons that are not working in computers (the pc I'm setting up is for one of these person) but metacity developper seems to think different.
The metacity developer you linked to was talking about something different.
Quote:

I did not want to insult anyone,
I realise this - this is why I am taking the trouble to advise you on ettiquette as well
Quote:

and this is YOUR interpretation of what I said, not mine !
Not just mine - it is "words to the wise" - ignore at your peril.

I will not waste any more time on ettiquette.

zghh 10-19-2008 01:31 AM

As I said in my seconds post, I don't know if this is a bug or not, just to me it looks like a bug (I hope I can have this opinion and say it without giving the feel I insult someone ..)

Read the first comment on the link I provided, the guy says he considers something as a bug in metacity and, hopefully, no one, even the metacity developper, in this page feel offended or insulted ...


I also won't waste any more time on etiquette.

Simon Bridge 10-19-2008 07:18 PM

The example you quote makes my point - this is the first comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xavier Claessens
AH! Now I understand why I have that empathy bug:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=502930
What do you suggest to workaround that?

(my emphasis)

Note that he refers to the bug by name and then gives a link to a formal bug report. He indicates surprise that the reported behavior appears to be as a result of a deliberate policy, (i.e. it is not a bug after all) and asks for help to work around this.

What's more, he was invited to call the behavior a bug in the preceding text:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Thurman
If you think this is a bad idea, figure out which part of it you think is a bad idea and then complain on that bug, or on wm-spec-list.

So - while a tad aggressive, his comment was good etiquette according to the guidelines in the advice link in my sig. (Have you read that yet?! I am doing you the courtesy of reading material you indicate in support of your position, and showing you that I have done so: please return the courtesy.)

You, on the other hand, just stated:
Quote:

Originally Posted by you
there is an annoying bug in metacity: new firefox window often does not appears on top but behind thunderbird

... you did not provide a link to a confirmed bug report, or name the bug in question. When asked, you admitted that you did not know it was a bug or not, or even which program the behavior came from (despite stating boldly in the first post that it was a bug in metacity).

My advice was:
Quote:

Originally Posted by me
... it is poor etiquette to label something as a bug without knowing for sure that it is in fact one.

If you have read the advice link in my sig and you still want to dispute the etiquette, then please respond off the board. My email is in my profile. Please be prepared to demonstrate that you have read the link.

Alternatively, you can ask a moderator for a second opinion - they will be able to advise you, with authority, on how etiquette works on Linux Questions.

As to your original problem - you have been informed that the combination you seek is, indeed, stable. Many times and on different boards. You say you have tested "it" in gnome/open-box and, though you did not state the result of the test, I guess it must perform satisfactorily for you there.

Therefore, your question is answered to your satisfaction. There is no need to help you fix the problem with metacity and kwm.

Have fun.

zghh 10-19-2008 08:24 PM

Well, I had a look a the link in your sig, but there is no rule on linuxquestions that says that what is in this document must be followed:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/rules.html

Otherwise, yes, some other people send me usefull answers to my question about gnome/openbox, thanks to them.

Bye


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