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codeman1234 06-12-2013 08:08 AM

Distribution for middle advance user
 
Hello,

I am looking for a linux distribution, I have always used Debian and I love it, but, I am looking for something more advance since I want to learn more on Linux, I consider my self a middle advance user on linux, so, I was looking for the following distros:

Slackware, Arch, Backtrack and Gentoo.

Personally I am throwing myself to backtrack and arch, can people please let me know what think since my objective is becaming an expert user on linux and all it has to offer.

Any other distros to keep in mind?


Thanks

MCMLXXIII 06-12-2013 08:36 AM

Depending on how deeply you want to venture into the nuts & bolts of GNU/Linux, Gentoo is perhaps the most challenging of those listed in your post. Mainly because it's a source-based distribution. Slack, Arch and Kali (formerly known as Backtrack) are binary-based distributions. That's not to say you wouldn't learn anything in Slack, Arch and Kali because they do offer flexibility in terms of compiling from source in their respective systems as well. But Gentoo is purely source-based, so the whole project itself will take longer to get up and running versus binary-based distributions.

When I first learned Linux, I started with Ubuntu. Stuck with it for about a year-and-a-half before jumping into Arch. From there I went to Gentoo. Each process from Ubuntu to Arch to Gentoo took me deeper and deeper into the GNU/Linux ecosystem. My advice for you would be the same. Try Arch and see how that works for you. Then if you're still up for a bigger challenge, try a pure source-based distribution like Gentoo or LFS (Linux From Scratch).

codeman1234 06-12-2013 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCMLXXIII (Post 4970245)
Depending on how deeply you want to venture into the nuts & bolts of GNU/Linux, Gentoo is perhaps the most challenging of those listed in your post. Mainly because it's a source-based distribution. Slack, Arch and Kali (formerly known as Backtrack) are binary-based distributions. That's not to say you wouldn't learn anything in Slack, Arch and Kali because they do offer flexibility in terms of compiling from source in their respective systems as well. But Gentoo is purely source-based, so the whole project itself will take longer to get up and running versus binary-based distributions.

When I first learned Linux, I started with Ubuntu. Stuck with it for about a year-and-a-half before jumping into Arch. From there I went to Gentoo. Each process from Ubuntu to Arch to Gentoo took me deeper and deeper into the GNU/Linux ecosystem. My advice for you would be the same. Try Arch and see how that works for you. Then if you're still up for a bigger challenge, try a pure source-based distribution like Gentoo or LFS (Linux From Scratch).

Hey MCMLXXIII,

I personally want to use linux not only on normal laptop but also work one, I been using debian for like 3 years, I know most of its system and how it works and personally I love it, just wanted a challenge, so, which one is better Arch??

Why Gentoo is so hard? But, it seems that people love it since most of them once they tried they dont change distro. Why is that?

Thanks

PrinceCruise 06-12-2013 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman1234 (Post 4970234)
Hello,
I am looking for a linux distribution, I have always used Debian and I love it, but, I am looking for something more advance since I want to learn more on Linux, I consider my self a middle advance user on linux, so, I was looking for the following distros:

Slackware, Arch, Backtrack and Gentoo.

Personally I am throwing myself to backtrack and arch, can people please let me know what think since my objective is becaming an expert user on linux and all it has to offer.
Any other distros to keep in mind?
Thanks

Hi,

If you are looking for rock solid stability and willing to stay for long term, like you did with Debian, look no further than Slackware.
Arch, with it's ever changing, rolling release system may sound challenging but as far as learning traditional UNIX and getting work done is concerned, it won't do anything extraordinary.
There's nothing special about Backtrack(now Kali Linux), except for a good lot of penetration testing tools, which can simply be achieved by using plain Ubuntu plus extra repos.

Legends say if you learn Slackware, you learn Linux.

Regards.

MCMLXXIII 06-12-2013 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman1234 (Post 4970310)
Hey MCMLXXIII,

I personally want to use linux not only on normal laptop but also work one, I been using debian for like 3 years, I know most of its system and how it works and personally I love it, just wanted a challenge, so, which one is better Arch??

Why Gentoo is so hard? But, it seems that people love it since most of them once they tried they dont change distro. Why is that?

Thanks

If you have access to multiple computer systems, then what I would do is leave a stable OS on one system, and assuming you're currently using Debian stable, then stick with it since you're already familiar with it. Then I would use the other computer for experimental purposes so you can test out different OS'es and whatnot.

Personally I own two laptops, a netbook and a desktop PC. The desktop is currently running Debian Wheezy. It's my go-to computer for production purposes. Stability is priority for that particular machine. My Dell XPS 13 laptop I bought in March is currently running Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. My 2008 model Acer Aspire laptop is an experimental machine. I like to test out different OS'es with it. It's currently running FreeBSD 9.1 stable and Gentoo in a dual-boot setup. The netbook is an Acer Aspire One and I also use it for experimental purposes. It's currently running CentOS 6.3 at the moment.

It's not about which is better. It's all subjective at the end of the day. What works for me might work like crap for someone else. You just have to try it to see if you like it or not. I can't make that decision for you. :)

Like I said in my previous post, try out Arch and see if you like it? If you conquer Arch and want to challenge yourself even more, then try out a pure source-based distribution. Source-based distributions are tedious by design, but you'll benefit in the long run from an educational standpoint. Once you've mastered installing a source-based OS from the ground up, then you'll have learned the complete nuts & bolts of GNU/Linux. :)

itsgregman 06-12-2013 02:08 PM

I always recommend Slackware first.

However if your looking to try a source based version of Linux I would recommend Lunar Linux to start with, it's slightly easier to set up than Gentoo and does provide a good system for everyday use. I would recommend it as a learning tool.

To me Lunar is somewhere between Arch and Gentoo, you start with a core system(no gui), then build a custom kernel, install X and whatever (if any) desktop Environment, then whatever else you want included on you system.

Everything is compiled from source so plan on long installations and upgrades.

Timothy Miller 06-12-2013 02:36 PM

For what you want, Slackware or Gentoo. Other than learning how to chroot into your system from a USB key to repair it when it breaks (and it will, quite often), Arch teaches you nothing that you don't already need to know from using Debian (until I got tired of the squirrels constantly breaking Arch, it was my second favorite distro after Debian).

codeman1234 06-12-2013 04:01 PM

Wow Guys, thanks a lot for the useful information, I am very impressed with all your recommendations, personally I love Debian and always will for long, but, the only thing I hate about its the dependencies issues that sometimes happen because of using software from testing version, it happen to me with Libre Office once and some other essential software for desktop.

Slackware was always a distro I always have in mind since it was always a big debate between Slack and Debian, at least from when I began with Debian and as I start using it. What are the biggest cons with Slack?

About Arch, I am pretty disappointing that won't learn anything new with it, I always saw Arch as a distro for more advanced users that want to improve their skills from a distro like Debian or Slackware, I also feel the same from Backtrack.

About Gentoo so, far I been reading a lot about it and about 90% of all reading material I got from Gentoo users that uses this distro seem to stay with Gentoo, they say that its a hard distro for you to set up your desktop and time but, when you do it seems to make it the best distro ever since everything runs smoothly and for example its hard to have this dependencies issues like I had with Debian.

What you guys think about this? Since it really makes me wonder :D!!

Thanks for the help guys :D!!

Timothy Miller 06-12-2013 08:55 PM

Slackwares only MAJOR pitfalls are:
1. Lack of dependency resolution out of the box. But there are several things you can add on to add that feature.
2. Lack of official support for many software packages. Notice I say official, because you can find a slack package for just about ANYTHING, but many aren't official. Makes no difference to me, but some people are anal about only using official packages.

Gentoo has never managed to capture my interest. Once, before 64-bit processors, I probably would have liked it. But now, the difference in performance is minor from something like amd64 Debian to 64-bit Gentoo. And in the time it takes me to install and configure Gentoo, I can install and configure Debian, watch a movie, and go grocery shopping. Just not worth the time it takes considering I ENJOY reinstalling fairly often just to try something else on my machines (my desktops are the exception).

PrinceCruise 06-13-2013 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothy Miller (Post 4970675)
Slackwares only MAJOR pitfalls are:
1. Lack of dependency resolution out of the box. But there are several things you can add on to add that feature.

Well, Slackware users consider that a mighty important feature, not a pitfall at all.
I can't say about other Slackware users but I seriously started using Slackware for everyday use because of lack of *automatic dependency management itself, apart from the stability.

Regards.

codeman1234 06-13-2013 12:36 PM

Hello guys,

thanks a lot to everyone for sharing their experience and opinion on this thread, I am going to be honest with all of you and tell you what happened here it goes:

To start I had learn using linux from Debian about like 4 or 5 years ago when a lot of people consider to be a harder distribution if I am not mistaken the "etch" version or "sarge" I am not sure. Personally I choose Debian because of the challenge even that were easier versions at the time like Mandrake (Ubuntu or Mint weren't there yet), I keep using for about 3 years until more or less when Win7 came around, I bought my new laptop that came haunted with the nvidia optimus technology, so, I tried to install to it my personal love Debian to it and because of this technology it seems imposible to work with Debian on it because as many know at least in my experience my laptop over heat since linux did not recognize this new tehcnology and because of it the fan on nvidia video card won't work causing the over heat on laptop. So, I was force to go back to Windows, Win7 at the time since it was the only OS that would work with this technology even that bumblebee came out at that time since a lot of linux users had same issue as me, but, at least for me did not fix issue at all laptop would over heat less but, still over heat and it usually happens in critical times :( !!!!

It's been a year or a bit more since that I been force to use Win7 and personally I don't hate it because what I do for business is SEO, Marketing Online and Web Development and for much I hate to recognize for that kind of business Win7 in one of the best choices at least on my opinion because for me I use a lot of Adobe's software specially Photoshop, I know a lot of people would say wonders about Gimp but, for me I could never got use to it and I tried to install it on the past on linux with Wine but, for me did not work as good, but, as you know there is always a safe fail system for this kind of issues for me what I do, for all Windows software I need I just create a new Virtual Machine with Win7 or whatever version just to use that software.

So, like a couple of days before opening this thread I was reading a lot about linux, since for my surprise in all this time that I been using Win7 a lot of new Distros came out like Slax, Arch, Gentoo, Sabayoon, Mint, Backtrack, OpenSuse, Fedora, just for saying some, I know that lots of them might even have came out even earlier but, not for my knowledge. So, my interest on linux came back again :D, I miss it :D

So, after telling you my history I will tell you what I want on the Distro is the following:

1) To be secure, with high security since I manage a lot of sensitive information from clients

2) To be fast and effective since I run a lot of software at the same time because of work and not updating a lot new softwares or new versions that at the end gives you problem with dependencies and you end up paying for it.

3) Not to waste my time, what I mean is that I don't mind at all learning and even expending a couple of days setting up the system, but, what I cannot affort is to have future issues with distro that takes time to install new software or something in critical moments, mostly because I have a lot of work to do and I deal with a lot of clients and I cannot affort that happenning with client. So, maybe Gentoo or Arch or Lunar Linux mentioned by "itsgregman" is not the right choice for me at least on working laptop.


4) But, my biggest issue is really compatibility with Adobe Software specially Photoshop as mentioned before since Dreamweaver I don't mind since I love Netbeans for that and also, it concerns me Libre Office mostly because like 90% of clients are Windowzers and use MS Office 2007 and I don't know how it is now but before with Open Office compatibility was a real issue when clients send you documents. And also making PDF's or editing like with Acrobat and last but, not least Blue Stacks since I have installed to use my Whatsapp from there when working. Those are my real concerns since everything else runs smoothly on linux even SEO Software has a linux version for it, and I really want to migrate because maybe its just me but, Windows crashes a lot and does not keep up on critical moments. Are those issues solve in linux?

For what I been reading on your recomendations and over the net I think that the best choice for me is Slackware as mentioned by most of you, so, what I am going to do to be sure everything works is to install it on a Virtual Machine.

I know this is a linux forum but, I also have my eye on FreeBSD or OpenBSD, what you think of those for what I want? Remember my main concern is work.


Thanks for reading and please let me know what you think, I am open to all suggestions or recommendations.

TobiSGD 06-13-2013 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman1234 (Post 4971095)
1) To be secure, with high security since I manage a lot of sensitive information from clients

Security is a process, not a product. How secure your system is depends on your habits when using the machine and how you set up your OS. A properly set up and maintained Windows machine is as secure as a properly set up and maintained Linux system (or more secure than a not properly set up and maintained Linux system).

Quote:

2) To be fast and effective since I run a lot of software at the same time because of work and not updating a lot new softwares or new versions that at the end gives you problem with dependencies and you end up paying for it.
Go for a stable version, like Slackware, RHEL/CentOS or Debian.
Quote:

3) Not to waste my time, what I mean is that I don't mind at all learning and even expending a couple of days setting up the system, but, what I cannot affort is to have future issues with distro that takes time to install new software or something in critical moments, mostly because I have a lot of work to do and I deal with a lot of clients and I cannot affort that happenning with client. So, maybe Gentoo or Arch or Lunar Linux mentioned by "itsgregman" is not the right choice for me at least on working laptop.
See my answer to 2).
Quote:

4) But, my biggest issue is really compatibility with Adobe Software specially Photoshop as mentioned before since Dreamweaver I don't mind since I love Netbeans for that and also, it concerns me Libre Office mostly because like 90% of clients are Windowzers and use MS Office 2007 and I don't know how it is now but before with Open Office compatibility was a real issue when clients send you documents. And also making PDF's or editing like with Acrobat and last but, not least Blue Stacks since I have installed to use my Whatsapp from there when working. Those are my real concerns since everything else runs smoothly on linux even SEO Software has a linux version for it, and I really want to migrate because maybe its just me but, Windows crashes a lot and does not keep up on critical moments. Are those issues solve in linux?
If your work is dependent on the proper function of Windows software than by all means use Windows to run that software. You will never get Windows software run as stable on Linux as it runs on Windows. If your Windows crashes a lot you have either faulty hardware or your system is not setup properly. Usually Windows (especially the newer versions) is as stable as Linux, if you maintain it properly.

codeman1234 06-13-2013 07:29 PM

Hey TobiSGD,


thanks a lot for you answers, I just made a new virtual machine using slackware and I have to say so, far I am loving it, I just install system and now I am trying to install all software and how its system works for it. Once I do it, I am going to try to set it up on my flavor, just to make sure I can work with it.

Just one question is there a tutorial to encrypt my system with luks from which I been reading since that is one skill I want to grow migrating to linux and that is encription that is what I mean with secure.

I have to say I install KDE on Slackware with only 1GB of Ram on virtual machine and I have to say that runs smothly, I am very impress so far.

I am going to play a bit with system before doing anything and later I will try Gentoo, Arch and some BSD like OpenBSD and FreeBSD and I will let you guys know what choice I will make. But, Slackware so, far is great and I am comparing a lot of things with Debian and it seems to be better in my opinion so far, I want to see how package system works and lets see if I end up in a dependency hell like Debian, but, for what I had read this does not happen with Slackware.

Personally I really want to increase my security skills on my system and understand everything that is going on and Slack seems to offer it. Is there a good blog or website with tutorials on Slackware that you know? Since I want to really mess with system to see how it responses.

Thanks again guys!! Sorry for the long info on previous post but, I wanted you guys to understand my needs.

The only bad thing of virtual machines is that I cannot try Bumblebee project on it!!

Timothy Miller 06-13-2013 08:35 PM

IMO, Bumblebee = DA DEVIL. :D

Too much work to get it working, when it works. I like to change kernels entirely too often (I usually keep up with whatever's current or just barely past being current, such as I have 3.9-5 right now), and it's just too much work. I actually disabled the Intel graphics on my system that has Optimus technology, figuring it's a quad core i7, it's not going to get good battery life REGARDLESS, so I'll just keep the discrete graphics all the time.

TobiSGD 06-13-2013 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codeman1234 (Post 4971320)
Just one question is there a tutorial to encrypt my system with luks from which I been reading since that is one skill I want to grow migrating to linux and that is encription that is what I mean with secure.

You can find it right on the install disk.

Quote:

Is there a good blog or website with tutorials on Slackware that you know?
Official Slackware documentation project: http://docs.slackware.com/


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