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Old 09-23-2008, 11:34 AM   #31
CharmCityCrab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chort View Post
At least someone gets it: The OS is irrelevant. For far too long people have wrangled with Operating Systems, which one is better, which one has the most apps, which one has apps that are compatible with the others... People waste time upgrading, patching, hardening, trouble-shooting, etc... it's all a giant waste of time. People don't have computers to run Operating Systems, they have computers to run Applications.

Cloud Computing opens up Applications to a much wider audience. The hardware requirements are minimal, the interface is a standards-based browser, and you barely have to worry about upgrading or patching anything (basically just your browser). The OS becomes irrelevant.

In 20 years time you will probably not be able to get Operating Systems as boxed software like you can now. All your applications will come from the cloud, like cable TV, long-distance telephone, etc... they will all be services.
Oh, yeah, you mean the cable television model where the bill just keeps going up and they take away channels at a whim? With frequent outrages in many parts of the countries? I can hardly wait until all of my applications are like that. :: rolls eyes ::

Look, basically, I refuse. I want an operating system, I want aps on my computer. I don't want a terminal skin. I'm more stubborn than most, but people will not drag me into this without a fight. Your brave new world is not for me. It doesn't benefit me. It doesn't benefit most people. It benefits a select few and the bottom line for some businesses. If it's an option, fine. If it becomes a de facto mandate, though, it's basically a form of technological tyranny. I don't want it and I won't do it. Hopefully an OS and software are around to support me with new versions, so I don't have to run 2008 aps on 2008 hardware in 20 years time, but if I have to, I will.
 
Old 09-23-2008, 05:31 PM   #32
chort
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharmCityCrab View Post
It doesn't benefit most people. It benefits a select few and the bottom line for some businesses.
Personal opinions are fine, you don't have to like or use anything, but then you cross the line and make ridiculous statements like these. Clearly it does benefit "most people", because it's gaining market share like crazy at the expense of on-premises solutions. If no one wanted it, it wouldn't be gaining momentum like it is.

For an example of technology that no one wants, take a look at the Itanium processors from Intel/HP. They poured billions and billions into the Itanium line and achieved a fraction of their projected sales numbers because, it turns out, no one wants a brand new 64bit architecture, they want the i386 architecture extended to support 64bits, which is how AMD made so much headway a few years back and forced Intel to play the same game.

So feel free to be a Luddite, that's your right. Just don't try to pretend that your minority opinion is main-stream.
 
Old 09-23-2008, 05:58 PM   #33
CharmCityCrab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chort View Post
Personal opinions are fine, you don't have to like or use anything, but then you cross the line and make ridiculous statements like these. Clearly it does benefit "most people", because it's gaining market share like crazy at the expense of on-premises solutions. If no one wanted it, it wouldn't be gaining momentum like it is.

For an example of technology that no one wants, take a look at the Itanium processors from Intel/HP. They poured billions and billions into the Itanium line and achieved a fraction of their projected sales numbers because, it turns out, no one wants a brand new 64bit architecture, they want the i386 architecture extended to support 64bits, which is how AMD made so much headway a few years back and forced Intel to play the same game.

So feel free to be a Luddite, that's your right. Just don't try to pretend that your minority opinion is main-stream.
I don't really like the way the word Luddite always gets tossed around like there's something wrong with being a Luddite. It's really just a different approach to the world. The Amish, for example, don't seem unhappy with the way they live. I wouldn't want to live like them, but it's all about choice -- they can live how they want to live, I can live how I want to live.

I don't think it would apply in this case anyhow -- I am not saying stop all progress, I'm saying I'd like to see a branch of technology continue evolve in non-cloud based form. I'm not advocating smashing your cloud machines. I'm not even saying "Let's preserve the status quo". I want new versions and new features, and more efficiency, but I want it to be based on my hard drive and controllable directly by me to at least the same extent it is today, as an option that can co-exist with the cloud option.

I don't know that it's established that there's no future market for non-cloud based stuff. I mean, let's say even 60% of folks love the cloud, or will come to love it. That means the other 40% wouldn't. I think that would still qualify as mainstream. If you think that 40% is too high, I'd like to point out that my IT friend is in complete agreement with me, as are the majority of people I know (Granted, like people tend to cluster to together, so I could certainly accept that we wouldn't constitute 51% or more of folks, though that's not impossible either).

Let's say further, a lot of that other 40% might reluctantly go along with because they don't want to be bothered to fight the trends, or don't give much thought to it. Even then, there would still be a market for a non-cloud based software stack, and a future market amongst the rest of the chunk not happy amongst whom word could be spread.

Why are you so hostile to the idea of multiple solutions and user options? Is there anything inherently wrong with interoperable parallel technological approaches and letting people choose between them?
 
Old 09-29-2008, 04:49 PM   #34
CharmCityCrab
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Stallman comes out against cloud computing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...chard.stallman
 
Old 10-01-2008, 01:55 AM   #35
Simon Bridge
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http://www.crn.com/software/210604795
Echoing Larry Ellison - yep.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13953_3-10052188-80.html
Quote:
“The interesting thing about cloud computing is that we’ve redefined cloud computing to include everything that we already do. I can’t think of anything that isn’t cloud computing with all of these announcements. The computer industry is the only industry that is more fashion-driven than women’s fashion. Maybe I’m an idiot, but I have no idea what anyone is talking about. What is it? It’s complete gibberish. It’s insane. When is this idiocy going to stop?

“We’ll make cloud computing announcements. I’m not going to fight this thing. But I don’t understand what we would do differently in the light of cloud computing other than change the wording of some of our ads. That’s my view.”
These two have come to similar conclusions from different directions. The main difference is that rms is concerned that this will be bad for software freedom as well as personal privacy.

Presumably these two can be considered to actually know something about that which they speak... which kinda kills the ignorance argument. It is possible to be knowledgeable and skeptical of "cloud computing".

I still think it's a fad - it will fade. Just like the other IT fads. There's no question people are buying it now - but that doesn't mean they want it... IT is a lemons market after all. Often they think they are buying something else - the kind of computer system they see in the movies for eg. (The flip side is that users tend to have unrealistic demands.)

There is another thing I've noticed... the term "cloud computing" is so broad that arguments in favour of one manifestation are often used, erroneously, in favour of another. This is similar to the troubles with the term "Intellectual Property". So, whenever someone talks about cloud computing, they need to get specific before you can tell if they are making sence.

For example - take a look at wikipedia (these can change, so as of time of writing)
The advantages listed are self contradictory - it is both distributed, and centralized (just one example, you'll find others).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing

RMSs observation
Quote:
Somebody is saying this is inevitable -- and whenever you hear somebody saying that, it's very likely to be a set of businesses campaigning to make it true,
... rings a bell here. The main advocate in this thread is in the business.

Last edited by Simon Bridge; 10-01-2008 at 02:02 AM.
 
  


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