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Old 08-21-2013, 01:32 PM   #16
kratos.william
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druuna View Post
@kratos.william: I fully agree with TB0ne on this.

A certificate is about showing what experience and expertise one has learned over time and in the field. This is (repeatable) knowledge you get over time.

Like TB0ne I've come across to many people that have a RHCSA and/or RHCE certificate but have very limited knowledge. They all got those certificates by cramming for the test over a short period of time. And although they knew how to solve the problems presented to them at the time of the exam, most of them forgot most they learned. In my opinion they shouldn't have these certificates.

Don't get me wrong, it is very wise to go through all the material required even if you have years of experience. There are always gaps and things to learn.
If you take the driving test for driver license did they ask you drive as F1 racer ? If people pass the driving test does DPS guarantees that you will not make an accident ? But every people has driver license Every test is very limited and standard. For me cert is only show up that you are know or at least familiar with specific field. People is not/should not estimated by certs.

Last edited by kratos.william; 08-21-2013 at 01:39 PM.
 
Old 08-21-2013, 01:43 PM   #17
kratos.william
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Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
Right...which is why you demonstrate knowledge to the recruiter and to the company interviewing you, DURING THE INTERVIEW. You KNOW answers..things that aren't on a test. That's how. You are not showing your ability by saying "See, I have a certification!"...you're just saying you have one.

And if you think a 'certification' that has no real depth behind it is going to get you ANY FURTHER than anyone else, you're sadly mistaken. Getting your first job is always hard, whether you have a list of diplomas as long as your arm or not. You will struggle to get in the door, and will get a low-paying job...just like EVERYONE ELSE does. What you do from there is work hard, learn, and move up.
I guest you know how hard it is for over through pre -pre-pre screening application without refers, experiences, certs to just come to approve your self with company. I am the right person you should hire.
As you said "What you do from there is work hard, learn, and move up" i understand that cert is first step

Last edited by kratos.william; 08-21-2013 at 01:46 PM.
 
Old 08-21-2013, 02:12 PM   #18
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kratos.william View Post
I guest you know how hard it is for over through pre -pre-pre screening application without refers, experiences, certs to just come to approve your self with company. I am the right person you should hire.
Yes, I do know...went through it myself, as did everyone else I know. Welcome to the real world.
Quote:
As you said "What you do from there is work hard, learn, and move up" i understand that cert is first step
Then you're not understanding what's getting told to you, and at this point, I doubt you ever will. If you do manage to get a 'certification', and get a job, you will very quickly LOSE THAT JOB, because your 'certification' won't have the knowledge and skills behind it to let you actually DO the job you were hired for. What, exactly, do you think is going to happen when you get a job? They're just going to have you do things that were only on the test?? Do you think they're going to let you go Google for something, or wait for someone in a forum to answer your question?? They want problems fixed and work done, period. If

If you think that you can escape that...you're wrong. Once you lose a job like that, it will FOLLOW YOU for years...every reference will be checked, and it WILL come up. People talk, and HR departments keep documentation.
 
Old 08-21-2013, 10:46 PM   #19
slx
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Hi there,

I was wondering what would be a realistic timeframe to learn and pass the RHCSA (and eventually RHCE) for an experienced Windows / VMware admin? I wouldn't say that I'm a total n00b in the *nix world, but most of my Linux and FreeBSD experience dates back to 2000 - 2003 and I've been mostly Windows guy since then, but now I'd like to get back on track I expect to be able to actively study for about 2 hours a day on weekdays and up to 8 hours on the weekend, so that would be about 20 to 30 hours of study time a week.

Thanks in advance for your replies and suggestions
 
Old 08-22-2013, 09:11 AM   #20
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slx View Post
Hi there,
I was wondering what would be a realistic timeframe to learn and pass the RHCSA (and eventually RHCE) for an experienced Windows / VMware admin? I wouldn't say that I'm a total n00b in the *nix world, but most of my Linux and FreeBSD experience dates back to 2000 - 2003 and I've been mostly Windows guy since then, but now I'd like to get back on track I expect to be able to actively study for about 2 hours a day on weekdays and up to 8 hours on the weekend, so that would be about 20 to 30 hours of study time a week.

Thanks in advance for your replies and suggestions
Honestly, I don't think anyone can answer that question but you. We don't know how quickly you learn, what kind of distractions you'll have, your depth of experience, etc. Too many variables.

Do NOT just take 'practice dumps', and read books on certifications, please. The best way to really learn would be to load Linux, and start using it. Configure the various services, read the how-to's on them, and learn how to troubleshoot problems. Focusing on being 'certified' is a bad thing, without the knowledge to back it up. I'm sure you've seen several 'certified' Windows admins who had trouble with basic problems...
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:35 AM   #21
sundialsvcs
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Dunno... around here, the "red pickup trucks" all drive like that.

The short answer to the OP's question is: "Now try to get a job to help pay back all the money you spent on those examinations!"

And if you think that this is going to happen ... please reconsider.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-23-2013 at 08:36 AM.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 03:02 PM   #22
slx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
Honestly, I don't think anyone can answer that question but you. We don't know how quickly you learn, what kind of distractions you'll have, your depth of experience, etc. Too many variables.

Do NOT just take 'practice dumps', and read books on certifications, please. The best way to really learn would be to load Linux, and start using it. Configure the various services, read the how-to's on them, and learn how to troubleshoot problems. Focusing on being 'certified' is a bad thing, without the knowledge to back it up. I'm sure you've seen several 'certified' Windows admins who had trouble with basic problems...
Well, I'm definitely not looking to take any shortcuts nor 'practice dumps' as it would be a total waste of time and money, I mean, what's the point to get a piece of paper if you can't handle the job, right?
So far I've bought the "Linux Bible" by Chris Negus and Michael Jang's RHCE study guide and additional guide with practice exams and set up a couple of Centos 6 vm's on my home lab although I use esxi and I realize that I'd need to get familiar with KVM for the exam.
The main problem thus far is that I don't know what to set up besides the obvious stuff like an apache web server? At work we use a couple of RHEL 4 servers running the LOB application, but that's it, all the other stuff is Windows, so, should I try to mimic a Windows based network with Samba and something like Postfix in leu of Exchange? I can see the Nagios installation as another project to imitate the SCOM, what else could I try to gain more experience and understanding?

Thanks!
 
Old 08-23-2013, 03:52 PM   #23
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slx View Post
Well, I'm definitely not looking to take any shortcuts nor 'practice dumps' as it would be a total waste of time and money, I mean, what's the point to get a piece of paper if you can't handle the job, right?
Exactly what I've been trying to get across to kratos.william, but with no success.
Quote:
So far I've bought the "Linux Bible" by Chris Negus and Michael Jang's RHCE study guide and additional guide with practice exams and set up a couple of Centos 6 vm's on my home lab although I use esxi and I realize that I'd need to get familiar with KVM for the exam.
The main problem thus far is that I don't know what to set up besides the obvious stuff like an apache web server? At work we use a couple of RHEL 4 servers running the LOB application, but that's it, all the other stuff is Windows, so, should I try to mimic a Windows based network with Samba and something like Postfix in leu of Exchange? I can see the Nagios installation as another project to imitate the SCOM, what else could I try to gain more experience and understanding?

Thanks!
Yes, setting up postfix would be a great exercise, especially if you also set up DNS, and touch on the selinux/firewall settings as well. Web services are good, as well. But also look at how to set up/modify network routes and adapters, DHCP services, and where to look for log files (and setting up syslog services wouldn't hurt either). Often, just knowing how to walk the problem chain is a great first step. Jang's study guide is an excellent book to go through.
 
Old 08-23-2013, 04:01 PM   #24
kratos.william
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
Exactly what I've been trying to get across to kratos.william, but with no success.

Yes, setting up postfix would be a great exercise, especially if you also set up DNS, and touch on the selinux/firewall settings as well. Web services are good, as well. But also look at how to set up/modify network routes and adapters, DHCP services, and where to look for log files (and setting up syslog services wouldn't hurt either). Often, just knowing how to walk the problem chain is a great first step. Jang's study guide is an excellent book to go through.
Don't forget to practice the tests/quiz after each chapter and also the instructor RH300 book(even it is old 2007) with very detail comments are good resource. We should know behind the scene it is very important to do whatever you want.
Build the system with the service and break it Actually i did break it all the time
 
Old 08-23-2013, 11:57 PM   #25
nothanks
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Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
Yes, I do know...went through it myself, as did everyone else I know. Welcome to the real world.

Then you're not understanding what's getting told to you, and at this point, I doubt you ever will. If you do manage to get a 'certification', and get a job, you will very quickly LOSE THAT JOB, because your 'certification' won't have the knowledge and skills behind it to let you actually DO the job you were hired for. What, exactly, do you think is going to happen when you get a job? They're just going to have you do things that were only on the test?? Do you think they're going to let you go Google for something, or wait for someone in a forum to answer your question?? They want problems fixed and work done, period. If

If you think that you can escape that...you're wrong. Once you lose a job like that, it will FOLLOW YOU for years...every reference will be checked, and it WILL come up. People talk, and HR departments keep documentation.


I've seen plenty of sys admins use google in the real world. Nobody is going to expect you to remember everything. You just have to be able to perform the tasks expected of you in a timely manner but chances are you haven't seen every technical issue that there is to see in the world.
 
Old 08-24-2013, 09:30 PM   #26
slx
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Originally Posted by nothanks View Post
I've seen plenty of sys admins use google in the real world. Nobody is going to expect you to remember everything. You just have to be able to perform the tasks expected of you in a timely manner but chances are you haven't seen every technical issue that there is to see in the world.
I guess that he meant that you need to know your stuff, like if you're an MCSE then you should be able to list and explain the FSMO roles or how the time in the domain is synchronized or explain how the DNS resolution works without googling it first otherwise your cert is just a worthless piece of paper. Nothing wrong with googling when troubleshooting a problem I would think.
 
Old 09-03-2013, 09:17 AM   #27
wstewart90
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Originally Posted by kratos.william View Post
If you take the driving test for driver license did they ask you drive as F1 racer ? If people pass the driving test does DPS guarantees that you will not make an accident ? But every people has driver license Every test is very limited and standard. For me cert is only show up that you are know or at least familiar with specific field. People is not/should not estimated by certs.

All a drivers license means is that you were able to pass a test. Just like a certification. It doesn't even mean you can drive. Some testers are more strict than others and there are people who manage to get their license who I wouldn't feel comfortable on the road with just like I wouldn't feel comfortable working with you if you brain dumped a cert, because just like that bad driver will probably cause accidents, you're going to bring down a critical server because you don't really know what you're doing. We just fired a guy not too long ago for bringing down a brighthouse server among other screw ups. That's what's going to happen to you if you think you can dump your way through an exam to get a job.

Lets say you wanted to get a job as a chauffeur or a taxi driver in the U.S. They don't care if you have a license. They want to know your driving history/experience. They want to know how old you are, how long you've had your license and how many accidents you've had. They're taking a risk by letting you drive their car/maintain there servers and a piece of paper that can be achieved by dumping an exam is hardly worth taking a risk on. Take a look at any linux administrator job that even mentions that an RHCE would be ideal and you will also see experience requirements in the range of 3-10 years.

In your last post where you talked about failing the RHCE exam you mentioned not being able to configure the service because of the firewall. The customers I work with have dedicated servers. As for the ones who don't know what they're doing, do you know what they do when they can't configure a service because of the firewall? They disable the firewall and leave their system vulnerable to all sorts of attacks. Nobody is going to let you work on their server if you can't figure out how to get the firewall to work with necessary services.

And just so there's no confusion here, what you and senthil4984 were talking about earlier was reading a dump also know as brain dumps. What that means is that you were able to get a hold of the actual answers to the test or in this case an exact simulation of what the test is going to be like. How those dumps come in to existence is usually by someone violating the nondisclosure agreement of the exam and revealing actual material from the exam after taking it. To be as blunt as possible, you're talking about cheating on the exam in a public forum which is grounds for losing your certification if you manage to get it. Now if dumping means something else to you other than using brain dumps then I suggest you clarify, otherwise, what everybody else has told you in this thread stands. You have to gain the knowledge. You don't gain the knowledge by memorizing test answers and you certainly don't get a job that way.

Considering you not only failed the test but are also admitting to cheating on the test, then I would say no, you don't have the knowledge. Go get it and try again.

Last edited by wstewart90; 09-03-2013 at 09:43 AM.
 
Old 09-03-2013, 10:04 AM   #28
kratos.william
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Originally Posted by wstewart90 View Post
All a drivers license means is that you were able to pass a test. Just like a certification. It doesn't even mean you can drive. Some testers are more strict than others and there are people who manage to get their license who I wouldn't feel comfortable on the road with just like I wouldn't feel comfortable working with you if you brain dumped a cert, because just like that bad driver will probably cause accidents, you're going to bring down a critical server because you don't really know what you're doing. We just fired a guy not too long ago for bringing down a brighthouse server among other screw ups. That's what's going to happen to you if you think you can dump your way through an exam to get a job.
NO everytime i hit Enter button I HAVE TO HAVE think about our children man
Quote:
In your last post where you talked about failing the RHCE exam you mentioned not being able to configure the service because of the firewall. The customers I work with have dedicated servers. As for the ones who don't know what they're doing, do you know what they do when they can't configure a service because of the firewall? They disable the firewall and leave their system vulnerable to all sorts of attacks. Nobody is going to let you work on their server if you can't figure out how to get the firewall to work with necessary services.
Totally agree. I disable firewall just for troubleshooting in our private network when service is not working as we expect. Other wise DENY ALL
Quote:
And just so there's no confusion here, what you and senthil4984 were talking about earlier was reading a dump also know as brain dumps. What that means is that you were able to get a hold of the actual answers to the test or in this case an exact simulation of what the test is going to be like. How those dumps come in to existence is usually by someone violating the nondisclosure agreement of the exam and revealing actual material from the exam after taking it. To be as blunt as possible, you're talking about cheating on the exam in a public forum which is grounds for losing your certification if you manage to get it. Now if dumping means something else to you other than using brain dumps then I suggest you clarify, otherwise, what everybody else has told you in this thread stands. You have to gain the knowledge. You don't gain the knowledge by memorizing test answers and you certainly don't get a job that way.
I am not this guy man. Certs is nothing for me if i don't have the knowledge and experiences I should have. I am learning from my failure and try work hard each day wish the hope that i can get get a job that i want to earn money for our children.
Quote:
Considering you not only failed the test but are also admitting to cheating on the test, then I would say no, you don't have the knowledge. Go get it and try again.
That's is what i am studying/labing/ playing with it. To make sure that even i am not certified in paper yet but MY KNOWLEDGE and hand on experiences equal or greater than that CERT other wise >/dev/null
Thank you all your supports and advices.

Last edited by kratos.william; 09-03-2013 at 10:05 AM.
 
Old 09-03-2013, 10:27 AM   #29
sundialsvcs
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Red Hat, of course, would prefer to sell you another certification . . .

Surf through their catalog, spend some more of your money, and buy another one. Rinse and repeat.
 
Old 09-03-2013, 03:49 PM   #30
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you took it and passed
go to the pub , have a beer
then get back to work .

other than that , only you can answer that question
 
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