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Old 12-17-2003, 07:29 AM   #16
elluva
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exactly, Linux isn't known. Whenever I talk with people and it comes to Linux, they always ask me "What's Linux?".

It's free => People don't know it => people don't use it
 
Old 12-17-2003, 08:11 AM   #17
RaiReg
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Registered: Jul 2003
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interesting interview

I should say that I've been satisfied with Mandrake from day one and I think this is just another good reason to keep using it
 
Old 12-17-2003, 08:46 AM   #18
VrtlCybr2000
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Registered: Dec 2003
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Yeah...

I always found Mandrake to be the best distro for me... I get it up and running in no time, with everything working out of the box ( I still remember installing it the first time to find that my CD-writer was ready to go! Ah... ) And I still have the ability to mess around with it to my liking... Text config files all the way!
 
Old 12-17-2003, 08:59 AM   #19
dukeinlondon
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Quote:
Originally posted by elluva
exactly, Linux isn't known. Whenever I talk with people and it comes to Linux, they always ask me "What's Linux?".

It's free => People don't know it => people don't use it

I've always thought that Linux companies (well the ones with a bit of cash) should do a common magazine ad campaign to improve awareness.

The problem with Linux companies is that, unlike the open source projects that they distribute, they don't want to work together : The packaging issue could have been sorted a long time ago if only distros started as a project to use something like Gentoo's portage as a common binary generator, to which they'd only have to provide plugins to make that engine produce distro specific packages. If that happens, it won't come from any distro. Linux companies lose sight of the fact that they compete on their own for a very small chunck of the market instead of competing together for the huge pie that MS and others currently own.

By contrast, KDE and Gnome now work on implementing the same protocols, KOffice is going to work on using Open Office file format, the various Linux browser use the same plugin format, and so on, various audio projects use Jack as a sound server (instead of providing their own), and all these projects are catching up with their commercial counterparts big time.

I hope Mandrake and others will finally realise that they can be also a driving force for Opensource convergence, instead of simply riding the wave.
 
Old 12-17-2003, 09:06 AM   #20
elluva
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gr8 comment...
When I started Linux, the same thing hit me...
 
Old 12-17-2003, 10:12 AM   #21
yapp
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Quote:
Originally posted by dukeinlondon
The problem with Linux companies is that, unlike the open source projects that they distribute, they don't want to work together

The packaging issue could have been sorted a long time ago if only distros started as a project to use something like Gentoo's portage as a common binary generator, to which they'd only have to provide plugins to make that engine produce distro specific packages.
Interesting comment, and think you're right about this.

Every distribution seams to re-invent the same wheel again. (which software+patches, packages, bootscripts) Instead of competing for the software configuration they provide, they should compete against service, or indeed user base.

The current competition makes it impossible to write global configuration tools, for example a tool to change network settings, or write a nice service manager like Windows 2000 has. FYI: Slackware uses /etc/rc.d/rc.* scripts, gentoo has /etc/init.d/*, and there is also the sysv-init style, etc... It would be great if each distribution had a common wrapper script to enable/disable a service.


( and I really think the gentoo portage tree would be a good start )
 
Old 12-17-2003, 12:01 PM   #22
rpg
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I MOSTLY agreed with the defence of the MandrakeClub. But, although I'm a member and will probably renew, I've been pretty dissatisfied. Here are some problems:

Getting urpmi configured is NOT easy. Mirrors come and go, and the MandrakeClub website does not seem to be updated frequently enough to reflect this.

MandrakeClub features forums, but they are poorly set up. It's difficult to search them, and the new look and feel has removed one's ability to find one's own postings! That's critical, so that one can go back and find the answers to questions. Furthermore, although the website claims it will email out notices in reaction to forum postings, this feature seems not to work.

The search facility for MandrakeClub website is very bad.

In general, the Mandrake Club website seems to be orphaned. A number of forums still claim to be moderated by Deno, who left Mandrake months ago.

I'd like to see some more attention put in administering the club.
 
Old 12-17-2003, 12:07 PM   #23
dukeinlondon
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I think the good news that we could have expected and that is not there is that noone to date is interested in buying mandrake to get a foothold on the linux market.

Since being under protection restricts the amount of business they can do, and it shows in a reducing turnover, they should be in a big hurry to get out of that. I don't see many big or medium sized business signing up with a company in that situation to be honest.

Pull yourselft together mandrake !
 
Old 12-18-2003, 12:09 AM   #24
markp1950
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Registered: Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally posted by KingofBLASH
Actually that's exactly what mandrake club does. There are a large number of Club Member archives you can put into urpmi (i.e. browse them in your Add Software menu under drakconfig) and install them as needed. Plus there is a voting system and way to request rpms and vote on how badly users what them to be packaged.

-Dan
Actually what my system is, is that use the free download, then I subscribe to Mandrake Club for support (both mine and Mandrake's) and downoad the extra packages that need dowloading.

For many users it would be the way to go. You don't have to pay unless you have a working system. But if you do get a working system, you should contribute!

Easiest way to find the urpmi links... Google "easy urpmi"

BTW Texstar does have his own release based on Mandrake, PCLinux OS...

MarkP
 
Old 12-18-2003, 08:35 AM   #25
domeili
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Registered: Oct 2003
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some problem with the interview

Quote:
LQ) What are your thoughts on UserLinux? Do you agree with the sentiment of the manifesto?
Quote:
GD) It's a bit early to comment it because nobody knows where it goes. But my own feeling (not MandrakeSoft's official position), is that 1) it's a Debian thing, isn't it? 2) it's better to follow standardization processes such as Linux Standard Base because all major Linux distributions agree with it, and it's important to avoid the "Unix balkanisation syndrom" if we want to see Linux succeed in the long term.

________


what is "UserLinux","Debian thing", "Unix balkanisation syndrom"?
 
Old 12-18-2003, 09:15 AM   #26
slakmagik
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Registered: Feb 2003
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UserLinux=http://www.userlinux.com/

Debian thing=see following, but Debian must uphold all that is righteous and pure, amen. While working hand in glove with RedHat in some aspects, ironically.

Unix Balkanization syndrome=probably *nix's tendency to fragment, get embroiled in infighting, get perverted by corporations, and generally destroy itself, like the big companies did to it in the 80s. Whereas Microsoft has no (visible) internal dissent and steamrollers the fragments with their monolithic monopoly.

The irony is that this very sort of thing to 'prevent' Balkanization usually amplifies it.

That said, MicroHat must be destroyed!

Probably won't happen, though. This decade is make or break. *nix finally comes out on top or it disintegrates yet again. Given the way things are going, I see history repeating.

Aside from Slackware's technical coolness, one reason I love Slack is it seems to ignore this tribal junk and top-dog-ism and just keep on trucking in its essential individual Slackness. But I digress.

Just had to add this:

Quote:
But the most ludicrous aspect of the Fedora project is that with Fedora, Red Hat seeks to achieve what Debian did long ago. Because they can't (and shouldn't) control Debian, they decided to re-invent the wheel. It would take them years to achieve a fraction of what Debian already has.
But the most ludicrous aspect of the UserLinux project is that with UserLinux, Debian seeks to achieve what Red Hat did long ago. Because they can't (and shouldn't) control Red Hat, they decided to re-invent the wheel. It would take them years to achieve a fraction of what Red Hat already has.

I'm forbidden to take his comments 'out of context' but that's a quote of a full paragraph with a link to the full source, so hopefully I'm okay there. My restatement is my own. Basically - create a Fedora community Linux, will you? Ha, well, we'll create Debian Enterprise Linux, then.

That said, he's exactly right about the Fedora 'community' just being unpaid employees of RH. There's no community intended there - just unpaid employees and hapless lusers to play crash-test dummies so that RH's 'valued customers' don't have to suffer any of that unpleasantness.

Last edited by slakmagik; 12-18-2003 at 09:45 AM.
 
Old 12-18-2003, 10:35 AM   #27
dukeinlondon
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The more I read that interview the more I think there is not much to learn from what Gael has got to say.
He might be the first linux packager to have taken ease of use to heart but that's about it. He is no visionary. Remarks like "it's a debian thing" just show the limits of his opinions.

Although I think mandrake is still currently the best distro around, I think Lindows is the best linux distributor because they stick to debian compatibility, they work hard to get OEM deals, and they are after the big pie: the desktop user.

I personally think that this user linux is a big fat waste of time to keep Perens busy. OSDL (corporate linux sponsors consortium) should fund Debian and that's it.

The reason why I say Debian is that it's completely community based and that it's already available through a variety of channels like Libranet, Lindows and others, already has a brand recognition amongst ISPs and the trust of a very big community and pretty much any opensource software is available for it.

So what was that user linux thing again ? ;-)
 
Old 12-23-2003, 10:00 PM   #28
C Scott
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Registered: Dec 2003
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Hi all,
This is my first post to the group and it's good to find this forum. The interview with Gael was good, but I'd have asked a few more questions, such as "Back in the beginning, why did you not consider using FreeBSD as a model for Mandrake, rather than Linux (Redhat)?

I tried Redhat for my first linux distribution, then Suse, now Mandrake. I am looking for a distribution that I feel comfortable with and like BEFORE I support it financially. Mandrake may be the one, but I haven't decided yet.

I switched from Redhat because of their CEO's comment and their abandonment of the linux desktop. I switched from Suse, because I'm in the US, and (sorry), but I want to support an American company. Much of Suse documentation is also in German, and I didn't want to bother translating (Linux users are lazy you know). Redhat ran fairly well, with standard tools that are not downloaded by Mandrake's iso's. (I still haven't decided whether I like Redhat's method of installing everything at the beginning or Mandrake's quick install with ability to add more applications if you need them.) Further Redhat was not great at detecting my hardware. In contrast, Suse and Mandrake did a fairly good job recognizing hardware. Mandrake may have done a hair better than Suse in hardware recognition.

I strongly disagree with Gael on why Linux is not a legitimate threat to Windows. It's NOT because of lack of software or applications, though more Linux software on the store shelves may help. Linux already has thousands more applications than Windows, and they are freely available for download on the net. It's HOW easy the applications are to install and how they work. For example, Linux still has no simple program installer to compete with Windows. I'm talking about a simple install such as inserting a CD to install a program OR downloading something similar to a Windows exe file that automatically installs the program.

IMHO, Linux also has to compete with Windows graphical interface better. As much as I loathe Windows, though I have XP Pro on my PC, it really is an attractive desktop. In Linux, Mandrake has done the best with the graphical desktop and that is one of the reasons that I chose it. However, Gnome and KDE, the only two desktops that I know of, could use some improvement. Though they are both very good, and in my opinion more attractive than Windows, I feel that opinion is not shared by most people. Gnome/KDE lack good sharp icons, and could use a more professional rather than playful look.

Status quo, my problems with Mandrake are:
1. Can't use Arts daemon with mplayer and my onboard AC97 sound card. This can probably be figured out.
2. No good support forum for users to help users. THIS IS A MUST! I tried Mandrake Expert and hated it. Postd are hard to read or find because of the format used. I can't even search or find my own post. I think a forum software like Invisionboard would work better, and this forum does a good job too!
3. Updating packages AND adding a program could be improved. I like the fact that Mandrake doesn't require you to download the entire package group like Redhat, such as the printing group, in order to get just one printing application. Mandrake also needs more applications for download. I couldn't even find audacity or any mp3 editor when browsing new software to install, and there have been other fairly standard apps that are available on Redhat and Suse that I could not find with Mandrake. Additionally, I still haven't figured out how to ADD software from an ftp site rather than having to install one CDROM after another. I like Suse's method which allows adding programs through ftp, rather than swapping out CDs. Of course, the problem with that method is that ftp sites are down or are no longer active, so having both methods available is probably best, with a checkbox to select which method you want to use.

Overall, Mandrake is pretty good, and no major problems. I just wish Linux distros would specify which boot system to use, such as nonfb, enterprise, smp. I found out what they all mean, but it confuses Windows users who come from an environment where you install just one Operating System. Also, specify which architecture should be used. Many users have no idea the difference between a PPC and 386, and I still don't know whether to use a 586 or 686 application. I just use 386 when available and it seems to work, though I've also used 586 without a problem. I have a single 2.4 Pentium processor with Hyperthreading and 1 gig of RAM, fwiw.

Last edited by C Scott; 12-23-2003 at 10:15 PM.
 
Old 12-24-2003, 11:19 AM   #29
elluva
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want a forum: here at lq --> distributions --> Mandrake
want an easy installation program --> urpmi (search on 'easy urpmi' in google)

both are easy and great...
 
Old 12-26-2003, 01:20 AM   #30
mbegovic
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To C Scott:

quote:

"I switched from Suse, because I'm in the US, and (sorry), but I want to support an American company."

1) Dude, Mandrake is French. And what the hell does it matter where the company is from? Most of them are international, anyway.

quote:
"Linux already has thousands more applications than Windows, and they are freely available for download on the net."

2) There are thousands of apps for Linux, but there are no equivalents to professional graphics and CAD software for one (probably other types of high-end apps, too). This is the main obstacle to Linux moving into legitimate home/small business desktop contention.

quote:
"Though they are both very good, and in my opinion more attractive than Windows, I feel that opinion is not shared by most people. Gnome/KDE lack good sharp icons, and could use a more professional rather than playful look."

3) What?! KDE is totally skinnable. It can look like almost anything you can imagine. There are many different window borders, themes, even icon sets available. See www.kde-look.org

quote:
"For example, Linux still has no simple program installer to compete with Windows."
"Additionally, I still haven't figured out how to ADD software from an ftp site rather than having to install one CDROM after another."

4) The Mandrake rpmdrake/urpmi is so quick and easy, that I have no idea what you're talking about. Have you been to the mandrakeclub.com site? You can download and easily install almost any available RPM package (though in all fairness, the site itself could use some work). It also has user forums (though I prefer the mandrake forum here).

PS: If you have a p4, use the i586 RPMs. Practically all Mandrake packages are compiled for i586, anyway.
 
  


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