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Old 01-28-2007, 09:17 PM   #31
Shingoshi
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Thumbs up


Quote:
Originally Posted by psisquare
No. He's (rightfully) saying that you can't configure every feature of Gentoo from a GUI and it doesn't come with all of the available maintenance GUIs pre-installed. Hence, Gentoo is not exactly ideal for people who want a GUI for each and every task (incidentally, nice link, Master Emerson ).


Even if you apparently already read Emerson's mind, please read again the post you find so offensive and think again about what he really says about whom. Particularly the bits you interestingly haven't taken apart yet.

I'm only saying this because I think there's a chance you're honestly trying to fight arrogant behavior against newbies or people who prefer GUIs. Maybe you've made some bad experiences, but fighting every mention of non-GUI alternatives isn't helping anyone, either.
If that was the intended purpose, just say, "use a GUI where you can and learn the system as much as you can. But instead it came across as an either or. Either you're good enough to use commandline, Or go somewhere else. That's simply what it comes across as, whether you realize it or not. Yes, you're right. Gentoo has a steep learning curve. And you are more likely than not better off to learn commandline. But that's true of any distribution of Linux. Having the GUI simply provides someone with the comfort to move around in an environment which is, let's face it, daunting. If those people didn't already know that they were either in over their head, in a grossly unfamiliar environment, and scared out of their wits, they wouldn't have been asking for a GUI. I spend most of my day writing scripts. And if that isn't commandline, I would like to know what is?

Granted most of the scripts I write are so that I don't have to keep redoing the same thing over and over again. If that wasn't the appropriate thing to do, we would all have monochromatic displays with nothing but a text interface. So if all you want to do is shake your head at those people who use GUI's, that's ok too. Just be careful about how you "inform" them about their "inadequacy". Otherwise it just comes across as insulting. And frankly, I want everyone using Linux. That's not going to happen if the luminaries are denegrading those of lesser skill. Lighten up! It's kind of like using training wheels. First you learn to maintain your balance. Then you build the confidence to go around the block. And before you know it, your reading maps and riding cross-country! So for crying out loud, give them a break. They will learn what they need to learn as they build the confidence to explore their own potential and that of Linux.

Last edited by Shingoshi; 01-28-2007 at 09:19 PM.
 
Old 01-28-2007, 09:43 PM   #32
Shingoshi
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Thumbs up And for the lack of GUI's, I use webmin.

And while webmin may not have everything, it is a good move in the right direction. Before that, I used linuxconf. It was very good too. But honestly, I like pictures. I more easily remember things when they are in color. I think that has actually been proven true of most people in psychological studies that have been done. Why else do you think we have color displays even on the commandline? I don't know how it is in emacs or vim, but when I am reading source code in mcedit, damn a lot of it is in color. It all comes down to recognition. Their is no learning without recognition. Which would you rather have? A pilot flying a 747 with a graphical heads-up display, or one fumbling through a commandline console? It might work for the engineer who designs the system, having the time to work in a relatively stress-free environment. All of those GUI's you see in a cockpit are there to reduce stress as much as possible. So why can't that be applied to a users environment in Linux? Stress is the mind killer!
 
Old 01-28-2007, 11:52 PM   #33
Shingoshi
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Thumbs up GUI's are just for amateurs...

Interesting. All of you who think so, should tell that to these Gentoo developers. Just check out this site and see how much water your arguments hold.

http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ge...040301/page=70

Of course, visual aides are only for amateurs. Yeah, I'm an amateur!
 
Old 01-29-2007, 09:02 AM   #34
Penguin of Wonder
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Shingoshi, no offense man, but I hardly consider function/arg. graphs on the same level as a GUI. To use your own language here, a GUI and a "visual aid" are not always the same thing. Visual aids don't do things for you, they merely show you whats already been done. A GUI actually performs tasks for you. A GUI is a visual aid with extra functionality tacked on to not only show you, but do for you.
 
Old 01-29-2007, 09:15 PM   #35
Shingoshi
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Wink Ok Ok Ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin of Wonder
Shingoshi, no offense man, but I hardly consider function/arg. graphs on the same level as a GUI. To use your own language here, a GUI and a "visual aid" are not always the same thing. Visual aids don't do things for you, they merely show you whats already been done. A GUI actually performs tasks for you. A GUI is a visual aid with extra functionality tacked on to not only show you, but do for you.
OK OK OK! LOL LOL LOL!
Am I supposed to smack the mat now!
You're right. I'm lazy. I'd like to be able to just talk to the damn thing and have it clean my house too! Maybe even make my bed in the morning and pour my coffee as well! Maybe soon, she'll even do my laundry. Yeah, I'm lazy!!

Last edited by Shingoshi; 01-29-2007 at 09:19 PM.
 
Old 02-08-2008, 07:50 PM   #36
Shingoshi
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This is funny, one year later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerson View Post
Just wondering. Why those GUI people want to run Gentoo? There is a plethora of GUI-oriented Linux'es to choose from. Without knowing Gentoo internals they get nothing but a system which is limping on both legs - definitely not better than binary distros.

Edit: Check out porthole.
First of all, I have to thank Emerson here again. I just started using Gentoo again. The first time I tried, things went fairly well. I forget exactly why I stopped. Ironically, I kept my Gentoo chroot all this time. At the time I first wrote this back in 2007, I was looking for a development system to satisfy a need I had. The thing is, just because I want to build software, doesn't mean I don't want gui's. Which is ironically the very first thing I built after installing Gentoo again this time. The first package was KDE. Even in my Slamd64 system (which I am using now), I depend on KDE for just about everything I do. And again, this isn't an issue of who is better than someone else. It's primarily an issue of needs and preferences.

Some of you will drop your mouths open when I say that I regularly use 20 desktops in KDE. I had set aside three of them last year, just for running my Gentoo chroot in Slamd64. Now, I am back. And once again I am trying to remember what all I did back in 2007. So you should have heard my laughter, when I came across this exchange from way back then. And again, I was looking for "emerge-gui" in Google. So here I am being reminded by my own words from a year ago. I hope that in the transpired time, that others have been helped too.

Thank you, me.
Shingoshi
LOL
 
Old 03-02-2008, 12:53 AM   #37
Person_1873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syg00 View Post
A GUI for portage - wtf ??? ...

Next it'll be a GUI installer (that works) ...
Then binaries so people don't have to compile...

Bah humbug ...
well put, i'm only just starting out with gentoo and decided out of curiosity to check to see if there was a gui for portage just for a little fun, but i totally agree, if you want a distro that does it all for you, go with ubuntu, or *shudders* windows
 
Old 06-03-2008, 08:49 AM   #38
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i noticed earlier in this thread, a mention of apathy in learnin a cli, the simple fact is, the only reason we have computers in the first place, is because humans are to lazy to learn to do things manually, we want everything done automatically and more intuitively. i personally have no problem with a CLI or a GUI, i'll admit a CLI generally grants you more control, but it can tend to be slow. on the other hand, a GUI puts a barrier up between the user and the nuts and bolts,i changed to linux to be able to customise my OS and access those nuts and bolts, therefore i do like doing things in a combination of graphical and command line interfaces.
 
  


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