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Old 02-18-2007, 10:26 AM   #16
gotfw
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This is so laughable. Deepclutch is the biggest hypocrite I've come across on these boards. Quite guilty himself of exactly that which he rails against. Talk about not feeding trolls...

I have used *nix since early 80's, before X, much less any gui or DE's even existed. During the years I have used all the major gui/DE's from early on, alpha/beta KDE and Gnome, etc. CDE on commercial offerings (very nice for it's day, btw). I've spent years using Gnome. Years using KDE. I don't like either anymore and presently opt for Xfce. Hence I am definitely not a KDE fanboy. With this in mind, I concur entirely with Linus. He is EXACTLY correct. Havoc Pennington and his sycophants were the worst thing to happen to Gnome. Their thinly veiled objective is to create a dumbed down stripped DE that can be targeted to corporate desktop market. Their premise being that 90% of computer users are average non tech types. Well, that may be in the MS world, but not the *nix world. The average *nix user is typically a pretty smart cookie. We want power. We want choice. We want all the knobs to be easily available. We understand that if we shoot ourselves in the foot then it is our own fault and problem, not the OS, DE, etc. And here we have precisely the reason why people with deep experience in *nix have left Gnome. Because the HIG Nazis have made it just plain suck.

Last edited by gotfw; 02-18-2007 at 10:31 AM.
 
Old 02-18-2007, 01:06 PM   #17
taylor_venable
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Popularity isn't everything. Quality software can be written without massive community support: that's how Linux got started. But even still, I don't see any indication that distributions are moving towards eliminating either GNOME or KDE. If anything, there's evidence to the contrary (a growing ecosystem) due to the growing popularity and capability of XFCE. And look at the Ubuntu family, where you essentially have the same operating system, but with the choice of GNOME (Ubuntu), KDE (Kubuntu), or XFCE (Xubuntu). No lack of choice there.
 
Old 02-18-2007, 04:56 PM   #18
Tortanick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotfw
Well, that may be in the MS world, but not the *nix world. The average *nix user is typically a pretty smart cookie. We want power. We want choice. We want all the knobs to be easily available. We understand that if we shoot ourselves in the foot then it is our own fault and problem, not the OS, DE, etc. And here we have precisely the reason why people with deep experience in *nix have left Gnome. Because the HIG Nazis have made it just plain suck.
And we should actively work to turn newbies into "*nix users" rather than make it easy for them to continue being newbies or worse, degrade into noobs who actively avoid knowladge of "computer stuff".

You wouldn't let people drive a car without knowing, not only how the stearing wheel and pedels works, but the basic physics behind a car. You really shouldn't let people run a dual-core 1gig ram potentual spam bot without the knowing how to run a computer.
 
Old 02-18-2007, 11:48 PM   #19
gotfw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortanick
And we should actively work to turn newbies into "*nix users" rather than make it easy for them to continue being newbies or worse, degrade into noobs who actively avoid knowladge of "computer stuff".

You wouldn't let people drive a car without knowing, not only how the stearing wheel and pedels works, but the basic physics behind a car. You really shouldn't let people run a dual-core 1gig ram potentual spam bot without the knowing how to run a computer.
Corporations do not want end users to have this kind of power. They want stuff locked down. Basically kiosk mode.
 
Old 02-19-2007, 12:20 AM   #20
Darkmaze
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like i've been saying for years to use a computer you have to remember it is one.
 
Old 02-19-2007, 01:14 AM   #21
hbush
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotfw
Corporations do not want end users to have this kind of power. They want stuff locked down. Basically kiosk mode.
Yep. That's why you have your home computer(s) to make experiments with and choose what do you like better
 
Old 02-19-2007, 02:24 AM   #22
Tortanick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotfw
Corporations do not want end users to have this kind of power. They want stuff locked down. Basically kiosk mode.
kiosk mode works on people with good computer skills anyway. And I'd sooner have no noobs running spam servers that worry about what corporations want.
 
Old 02-19-2007, 04:44 AM   #23
easuter
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*sigh* yet another one of these threads....

Last edited by easuter; 02-19-2007 at 04:58 AM.
 
Old 02-19-2007, 11:46 AM   #24
slantoflight
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I think I see things leaning towards KDE too. Basically , they're both great pieces of software and you're good with either one. KDE can do what gnome can and vice versa.
But it seems KDE is more aligned with what linux users want, somehow. In presentation, and philosophy.

Plus lets not forget Amarok.
 
Old 02-21-2007, 05:45 AM   #25
brianL
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Variety is the spice of life (as they say, whoever THEY are). I use both - KDE on Slackware, Gnome on Ubuntu - and like both of them, Xfce too. I'm beginning to think I must be the most easily satisfied person on these forums. Don't "hate" this, don't "hate" that.
 
Old 02-21-2007, 09:43 AM   #26
Four
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Quote:
And we should actively work to turn newbies into "*nix users" rather than make it easy for them to continue being newbies or worse, degrade into noobs who actively avoid knowladge of "computer stuff".
There is nothing wrong with making things easier for others. KDE seems to do a good job in making things easier e.g. mounting usb drives automatically. By forcing a migration to "*nix users" is not helpfull, by configureing linux (wether make it more easy to use or graphical or other) in such a way that people are comming by their own choice is something to be proud of and not degrading.
 
Old 02-21-2007, 02:08 PM   #27
exvor
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Only reason people like either one really is they come pre-installed on the distro or in a package. If you ever had to compile gnome or KDE from scratch you would dislike either one such as I do. Gnome needs help from dependency hell. We need to move more of the files that have no other use into a single lib or set of libs rather then the nasty smathering of libs we have now. An example is the ablity to burn a disk from the file manager ?? Even if i dont want to do this i still have to compile the stupid lib as its required for the file manager.

Don't fret gnome because my KDE bashing is about to begin here. KDE yes its nice when it wants to compile correctly. Even with the good documentation of KDE with BLFS KDE still rains in my pice of shit bin . QT is horrid and takes forever to compile. I remeber my days spending 2 hours compiling qt just to find out in the end that it errors out.. YAY another 2 hours to see if i fixed the issue or not. I have yet to get mysqul to be able to get compiled into qt correctly as it just errors to no end. Maybe this is fixed now and yes it compiles faster on newer hardware. And after all that KDE still failes to compile correctly sometimes and sometimes it does but everything is missing or doesn't work. At least Gnome worked the first time around when I compiled it last but KDE was elusive to be able to get compiled correctly. This might have some issues to do with the instructions that blfs has and the newer versions of kde avalible im not sure.

My point is that there are other window managers around and I still see fluxbox and icewm and xfce (I used xfce for a long time but there current version with Dbus integration made me leave) being used extensivly. The main distros stay to kde and gnome because they are easy to use and windows users are comfortable in that environment. as for me im staying in icewm for the moment and maybe even window maker not sure yet. Alot of Gnome and KDE is just fluff for me anyway as i change my settings via the text files in the system. Then again I am kinda special as I made my system from the ground up and its customised for me.
 
Old 02-21-2007, 02:25 PM   #28
Inchcape
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Funny, a couple of weeks ago I read an article asking if Ubuntu wasn't giving KDE the cold shoulder and preferring Gnome!

I lean towards KDE, but I certainly wouldn't want Gnome to disappear. To me linux means choice - MY choice of what I want to use, rather than being forced into a "choice of one" by the morally and legally doubtful commercial attempts at monopolizing a market of certain software producers.
So, I believe we need to keep as much choice as possible - each "competitor" keeping the others honest, each inspiring the others often, collaborating actively on occasion. My thanks to them all for giving ME the choice
 
Old 02-22-2007, 08:40 AM   #29
deepclutch
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Thumbs up let everyone use the DE,what they are comfortable with ;)

I started this thread after getting a huge dose of
anti-gnome dialogues both from internet and personally too.
it seems i can go happy with my GNOME DE.what i understand is you should never try a pro-kde or any such flamming articles/comments.you can live for another couple of years! that is.

after converted from Windows and you selected your preffered desktop environment-the war starts literally-
which DE one is the best?
A:whatever you are comfortable with
Q:but tuxmagazine is compelling us to move to kde?!
A:there is a few kde zealots there!leave there comments!they are best at their jobs.leave it.believe it or not,GNOME users dont deserve this bashing from kde.let GNOME and GTK2 growing!Linus had directly attacked a community project
which is as u know is a flagship project of GNU
GNOME-I love it.please let me use and to live.

http://www.gnu.org/press/gnome-1.0.html

Last edited by deepclutch; 02-22-2007 at 08:55 AM.
 
Old 02-22-2007, 10:59 AM   #30
reddazz
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Deepclutch, I think you are getting too religious about this whole KDE vs GNOME thing (from what I have seen in this and other threads). Tux Magazine is free to promote KDE if it wishes, its their choice, just like it is your choice to use GNOME (and promote it if you like). Its not just KDE users who bash GNOME, GNOME users are also notorious for bashing KDE. This has been going on for years and guess what, its just a waste of precious time because it does not achieve anything. If you like GNOME, then there is nothing wrong with that, keep using it and quit the zealotry.
 
  


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