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Old 07-25-2003, 04:25 PM   #1
Boffy
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Why Linux Will never overthrow or compete with Windows


I recently tried mandrake linux 9.1 due to problems that i encountered with windows. I am a desktop user with a reasonable powerful PC, a shared broadband connection using the linux computer as a server. I was hoping for linux to solve all the problems such as constant crashing but I encountered many new problems that are just as bad as the bsod or worse. Anyway below are problems that i encountered.
1) To share the Internet connection I must turn on the computers in a specific order
2) the firewall is hard to use and does not work with Internet connection sharing
3)The computer takes a very long time to load
4) Most good computer games do not work(It don't normally bother me but its still a major disadvantage for many)
5)WINE is crap
6)Many good programs crash frequently
7)Newbies will struggle with console mode (as i did)
9)When problems occur the fix can be extremely complex

I tested mandrake and I will expect many would respond to this message saying that mandrake sucks and I'm not going to dispute that, but that is not what I'm getting at i am trying to state some constructive criticism that may well help linux be a real competitor in the desktop market. I wish linux every success in its future as i dislike Microsoft's strong-arm tactics however i don't see it happening soon.

I have changed my opinion since posting this over a year ago and if you look further on in the post you can find out my reasons

Last edited by Boffy; 09-14-2004 at 04:10 PM.
 
Old 07-25-2003, 04:32 PM   #2
Proud
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Mandrake rocks, it has already competed with and completely overthrown windows in my household. Your post is void, goodbye.
All those 'problems' sound simple to fix, just read the relevent info.
 
Old 07-25-2003, 04:44 PM   #3
Mega Man X
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3 - You have to specify which programs you want to load at the boot
4 - WineX is growing stronger. In fact, many games are already possible to play very well under Linux... Diablo, Half-Life, Counter-Strike, Dungeon Siege. In fact, in most games I get higher fps in Linux that Windows...
5 - well.... lol.... It actually works, not 100%, but you should use it ONLY when you don't find a similar/equivalent program on Linux (It surely exists)... I get so mad when peoples wants to use wine to run IE and MS Office. What should they learn new them? Windows is the best choice for those.
6 - Which ones?
7 - Well, that's almost true. But Mandrake has an infinity number of wizards to help configuring stuff. Also, editing in text mode is not hard, you just need to know how to read.
8 - How? For example?
 
Old 07-25-2003, 04:52 PM   #4
fancypiper
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Dual booting is easy and you can have the best of both worlds (but is there a best with Microsoft, hmmmmm?)
 
Old 07-25-2003, 04:52 PM   #5
synecdoche
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So basically because YOU had a bad experience, Linux will never "overthrow" Windows? Wow, you've got clout.

That said, I don't think anyone cares if Linux does or doesn't overthrow Windows. Personally, I use it, I like it, and that is good enough for me.
 
Old 07-25-2003, 05:02 PM   #6
Mega Man X
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Well, Boffy have tried at least He has posted 21 times since when he joinned the forum this month. I've seem peoples who just joined the forum and their first message was to make a Linux Vs M$ thread . I also didn't like Linux in the beginning... I've downloaded a Windows program, clicked in the setup.exe and nothing happened. What stupid OS, I said... lol...
 
Old 07-25-2003, 05:05 PM   #7
Skyline
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Hi Boffy
Quote:
3)The computer takes a very long time to load
Supposing it takes a little longer than an equivalent Windows system to load - Is it then accurate to suggest that it takes "a very long time to load" - this is not convincing.
Quote:
4) Most good computer games do not work(It don't normally bother me but its still a major disadvantage for many)
Ask yourself Boffy - is it an inherent fault in Linux that most good computer games dont work - or - is it more likely that for a raft of historical reasons, the Games manufacturers choose to primarily create Games for the Windows platform - again your not convincing.
Quote:
5)WINE is crap
WINE is only young - IMO its impressive were they're up to with it.

Quote:
6)Many good programs crash frequently
Be more specific with what programs you're talking about - its difficult for us to assess this - again not a convincing statement.

Quote:
7)Newbies will struggle with console mode (as i did)
This pre-supposes that Newbies will regularly need to use a Console.
Quote:
9)When problems occur the fix can be extremely complex
Again - depends on the problem - I'm currently running Mnadrake 9.1 amongst other Operating Systems - I've had no real problems.
 
Old 07-25-2003, 05:10 PM   #8
nvn
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Well, I'm by no means a Linux expert, and I certainly still have a lot to learn about Linux in particular and operating systems in general, but...my belief is contrary to the topic of this thread; I believe that Linux (and the open source movement) could very well come to be the end of Microsoft as we know it today.

Sure, one could say that Linux has a long way to go as a desktop OS, but that's just one aspect (and is the desktop really Linux? ). I believe that the structure of Linux is superior to that of Windows - and even though it (currently) takes some knowledge and tweaking to get it running as one wants it to, what you end up with is an OS that is _much_ faster and more secure than Windows. You have a degree of control that's just not possible with Windows. I feel this control is a personal matter, because (to cite Bruce Eckel, who possibly was citing someone else) computers are not as much machines as they are mind amplification tools. Computers are becoming more and more important, and showing up in more and more circumstances - it might be a cliché, but in the long run...if you don't control your computer, it (and possibly someone else) _will_ be controlling you. We don't like that.

An OS should be (able to be) completely transparent - you should only have to bother about the apps you're running. This is where Windows excels (well, sort of) today, and also where it fails - due to the fact that so much is hidden for you that really shouldn't be. Also, because "everyone" can use Windows, it means that people who are completely computer illiterate are clicking ON THE WRONG ICONS. This, in combination with an insecure OS (the security policy of Microsoft is "if you don't say otherwise, everything is allowed"), is how virii can spread so easily (don't you just wonder why people keep clicking those attachments?).

Etc.

I only have brief experience with Mandrake, so I can't really comment on that specifically, but I believe that 1), 2), and 3) in your list is directly configuration-related. These are really non-problems. My box (it's a monster, but anyway) boots in like 15-20 seconds, the firewall (that is, the IPTables script) is absolutely configurable and has no problem with connection sharing (masquerading), although I use a switch for that purpose.
Concerning 4) and 5)...well, I think it's cool that a) it's possible to run Windows games in Linux, and b) many major developers actively support Linux and offer patches etc. AFAIK games generally run a lot faster in Linux than they do in Windows.
And 6); programs crash sometimes, though for me, that's more typical for Windows apps than for Linux apps. It depends.
Now, 7)...possibly, but I believe much of that "struggle" is only "oh no, I can't DOUBLE-CLICK anywhere!". To me, console means power.
Finally, 9) (what happened to 8) ?)...sure, but you still have the power (and possibility) to take total control over your system and fix the problems. It's a looooong way from having to reinstall Windows.

To wrap it up, I see it like this; Linux generally demands the user to actually know something of computers. I consider this a good thing. Imagine if the average Windows user was as computer-oriented as the average Linux user! Anyway, in return for this demand, Linux offers a great deal of what Microsoft has been trying to reduce all the time; flexibility, security, integrity. It's going to be _very_ interesting to see what the future brings - I wonder where Linux and Microsoft stand in, say, 10 years?

My 2 cents. I'd better stfu now.
 
Old 07-25-2003, 05:15 PM   #9
dolvmin
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There is Windows 3.1 and there is OS/2, what is the difference?

Both were made by Microsoft, but one was lisenced to IBM while, the other was lisenced to Microsoft to over throw IBM <smiles>

The GUI is slightly different, but the kernal's are identical.

"NOTE" THe Kernals are Identical!

OS/2 Sucked... Windows 3.1 rocked! (compatiablity)


Why Windows will never rock Linux!

Because Microsoft suffers from a sever case of Narrow-Vision (they are not open minded).

I one time made the mistake of saying something that wasn't true to my professer. "Linux is all the same".

His replay was, "WRONG"
Linux is Vanilla, Strawberry, Cherry, Sherbert, etc.

Windows is only Vanilla.

Linux is only a kernal. Everything else is either provided volentarily and by the distributing company.

If Mandrake does not work for you, then perhaps Mandrake wasn't a good choice for you. However, another version of Linux may prove to be perfect for you.

The up and downs from my own experience.

Mandrake...

The good side of Mandrake is if you get it properly installed into your system, it is very good! Mandrake has many wizards to help make your life easy.

The bad side of Mandrake is, it sucks with hardware. Compared to Red Hat, compatabity is a big problem for them. Not all provided drivers work under Mandrake. ATI is one such example.

Red Hat...

The good side of Red Hat is, hardware compatablity and network management.

The bad side of Redhat is, you almost always have to build drivers into the Red Hat. Windows emulation is horrible. You can not even install WineX into the latest version of Red Hat 9.1.

Lindows...

The good side of Lindows is, compatablity (software/hardware), easy to use, little to no text based environment. Easy to install. Plug'n'Play works very good. Wizards are exceptable and considered good to some. Most to all games and other Windows based software works with it. Comes with Wine, WineX and addition emulation of which you would seldomly have to see, because Lindows steps away from the Text Based Environment.
Has the Network Neighborhood, which works with Windows's version.


From what you have written, it sounds as if Windows is not giving you what you need and you respect Linux for being reknown for doing it. But you were disapointed with your experience with Mandrake. You don't have the patiance to use Linux but want to take advantage of it's power but feel refrained from doing it because of your experience with Mandrake. In short, you want an easy to use Linux. (Linux for Dummies) <Laughs>


My recomendation to you is try Lindows or Lycoris.

www.lindows.com
www.lycoris.com

Lindows works on a FAT32 Filing system where as, Mandrake and Red Hat can only MOUNT it.

Lindows comes with a pre-install of both Wine and WineX. In addition, they have other resorces installed to emulate a better Windows Environment. Infact, it's so good, that Lindows gives you the option to install Lindows right on top of Windows 98.

In Lindows, you could not tell the difference between Windows and Lindows untill you had to go into the Directory Tree...

Windows = C:\<directory>\<file>
Lindows = /<directory>/<file>
 
Old 07-25-2003, 05:23 PM   #10
dolvmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by Megaman X
Well, Boffy have tried at least He has posted 21 times since when he joinned the forum this month. I've seem peoples who just joined the forum and their first message was to make a Linux Vs M$ thread . I also didn't like Linux in the beginning... I've downloaded a Windows program, clicked in the setup.exe and nothing happened. What stupid OS, I said... lol...
LOL LOL LOL Megaman X, that is halarious! hahaha
 
Old 07-25-2003, 05:43 PM   #11
Mega Man X
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heheh Today I laugh at it too... but I was so angry. I can't remember if it was Media Player or ICQ that I've tried to install. I can't say how dissapointed I was because I could not figure it out how change that gnome's foot to a start button. I was so closed minded, blind with M$ that even to start my applications with a foot was wrong in my mind.... lol. How monkey, or better saying, a M$ laboratory rat was how I felt after learning Linux enough to install a program.

Well, anyway, a cool link and some statistics:

http://www.fool.com/portfolios/rulem...aker991124.htm

"According to the Gartner Group's estimate, Linux passed the 10 million user mark during 1998 and was growing at 212% annually at the time. Assuming it slows to 100% annual growth (which it has maintained since its introduction in 1990), it will surpass the Windows installed base in about three years. At that point, the network effects will favor Linux and hinder Windows."
 
Old 07-25-2003, 06:06 PM   #12
ranger12002
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i havent had any probs with mandrake so far and ive been using it since 7.2...
1)obviously you need to turn the computers on in a specific order if your internet is being shared by the linux box you would need to turn it on first
2)which firewall have you tried? i read up on the man pages about iptables and it works fine for me..its not point and click so you have to use your brain a bit =)
3)my computer is slow and it takes me 20 secs to boot up mandrake
4)you want to play games on your server?
5)im not a gamer nor do i want to run windows garbage so i wouldnt know
6)what programs are good? who told you they were good?
7)your using mandrake there is 1000000000000 wizards to help you so you dont need to use console
8)you cant count? (are you sure its mandrake and not you?)
9)at least you dont have to reinstall =\

i used to like microsoft but one day it crashed and i said that was the last time it ever crashed on me and switched to linux and now i love linux and wonder why i ever used windows.....my 2 cents
 
Old 07-26-2003, 02:57 AM   #13
Boffy
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I hope that linux will overthrow Microsoft because its so very big and doesn't really care what users want they dictate to them what they want. I am going to stick with linux for a bit yet but I'm going to use red hat instead because mandrake's wizards i either cant find(Server Wizard and DCHP wizard are not on the control centre despite me installing everything) or return errors(ICS disables itself and lilo returns errors no matter what i do).

Like a few in the thread mentioned I agree and know that its not linux fault that the computer game makers don't make games for linux and i think that it is very wrong. I do hope wine will come into its own because I really need windows programs to run for school work.

I will try some of the changes suggested in the thread so thanks for the advice. By the way if anyone knows of a site that will teach me to fix my cm8738 sound card into 5.1 i would be very thankful.

Boffy
 
Old 07-26-2003, 04:14 AM   #14
carlywarly
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Wizards - go into Mandrake Control Centre, Software - Add Software - search for wizard in All Choices Alphabetical. You should find drakwiz.
 
Old 07-26-2003, 06:46 AM   #15
Boffy
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cheers
`
 
  


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