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Old 07-18-2007, 02:39 PM   #16
Forezt
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I guess that, on a societal scale, things do kind of follow a kind of natural selection, if-the-tool-works-use-it approach (though at the same time this is doubtful since it's not possible for everyone to know and consider all options; and it's really not possible for everyone to consider them on the same criteria or with the same degree of reason. Perhaps in truth marketing has more to do with it than anything else). For businesses, efficiency is the name of the game. A lot of people work the same way.

Out of necessity, everyone has to follow the efficiency rule to some degree (for us perhaps within the constraints of "is it open source / free software?"). Some people, like the person who talked about the rake explained, are more swayed by the artistic, aesthetic, or philosophical implications contained within the tools they use. Maybe, it turns out, these other considerations lead us to more efficient solutions in the end, a loose example being the vi expert mentioned earlier.

With things like video editing, which were visual, intuitive tasks before the digital age, it's definitely much better to use a GUI. Using the command line would be, in the age before computers, like sitting in a room with a bag over your head and telling someone else in a foreign language how to cut your reel, and where to splice, etc. With things that weren't done visually before, though, the command line works beautifully. For example, I manage and listen to my whole music library through Bash. With scripting, I can do almost everything that iTunes did and in a clear, open way that is so beautifully simple it makes my heart race.

But, in the end, like I said (and I may be going out on a limb), I don't think this is where things will be for long. I think that eventually our technology will reach a point when computers, instead of being a tool confined in and of themselves, will be integrated, embedded, form a symbiotic relationship with the tools that we use already. Maybe it's an idea I got from reading too much science fiction, but it seems to stand to my reason, at least.
 
Old 07-19-2007, 07:16 AM   #17
wjevans_7d1@yahoo.co
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"The only intuitive interface is the nipple."

For more info on that, see:

http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2002/08/nipple.html
 
Old 07-31-2007, 09:40 PM   #18
kcarun
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Hi Friends , I am newbie in this , I dont know whether i have to participate in this discussion,

I think command line is much good for administrative purposes, and it is better for our eyes also!!!

...Arun
 
Old 07-31-2007, 11:17 PM   #19
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A few random thoughts on the CLI

  • The great thing about the knowing how to use command line tools and a little scripting is that it gives us the potential to do more than just the few things that are available in a specific program. It can free us to the things we want to do.
  • Practice with the CLI keeps those skills sharp.
  • Every version of Windows seems to have removed itself from these capabilities. Which can be interpreted as dummying down the OS, removing control from the user, and creating fear of a powerful tool.
  • The Longhorn spec included an OO-CLI, I haven't touched Vista, have they done anything interesting with their CLI?
  • It is possible to mess things up very badly with what can seem like a small error. Most of us who experiment with the CLI will quickly learn ways of preventing disaster not only from errors using the CLI but also with console and GUI applications. It is also probably why people who don't learn from their mistakes don't like the CLI.
  • It can often take more time and effort to write a silly little script to do what would have done manually, but we learn more and get more out of the result. If done well, it can end up adding a tool to our own tool box.
  • The CLI operates at a more fundamental level, the knowledge gained here can give us better insight on how to control things at a higher level. It can also get in the way, especially if an application ignores those fundamental concepts.
  • I often find it harder to remember where things are (which menu, tab, setting, etc.) than it is to remember equivalent commands.

Use the right tool for the job. The CLI gives us a bigger toolbox. Including the tools to make more tools. GPL is the ultimate power tool, it helps us to share those tools nicely. Whenever I give thought to the CLI, I have to give thanks to the wonderful people that give me wings.

Have a nice day.
jer

Last edited by jerril; 07-31-2007 at 11:20 PM.
 
Old 08-01-2007, 08:18 AM   #20
wjevans_7d1@yahoo.co
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Another advantage to CLI:

At least for me (and for anyone else who has learned to touch type rapidly), there's a certain kinesthetic memory involved in commonly performed tasks. For some of these, I'm no longer aware of what my individual fingers are doing when I ask the computer to do something. It's as though I were "talking" to the computer.

A common example: I can no longer tell you how to do half the things I do in vi. My fingers have learned how to do them. (I'm not bigoted; I'm sure emacs works the same way, but I wouldn't want my daughter to marry one.)
 
Old 08-01-2007, 09:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forezt
I've come to think that we're in a very transient stage of computer history, when computers are confined to live in screens. Whether it's nanotechnology, virtual reality, or augmented reality, I think that we'll soon be in a world where the tools of mind are as tangible and manifold in form as the tools of matter.
Do you reeeally believe that the same guys that do the gui interfaces will be able to read your mind and have the computer do what you want anytime soon?

What it comes down to is after all designing the interface - be it graphical or reading direct from your mind.They don't do a great job now and the mindreading wont be any easier.

Actually that could be fun:
'But I did think rm -f /star NOT rm -f /*!'

And if you touch around in midair (like the movies) you'd still need something to touch at (Hint: GUI).
 
Old 08-01-2007, 12:38 PM   #22
hacker supreme
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crashmeister, is your mind reading interface playing up a little?

Were you thinking: 'rm -rf /star'? (You missed off the recursively bit.)
 
Old 08-01-2007, 03:57 PM   #23
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Told you - it ain't going to work
 
Old 08-04-2007, 08:10 PM   #24
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CLI + completion + bash3 + lip-reading --> no GUI needed
 
Old 08-04-2007, 10:14 PM   #25
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GUIs are nothing more than eye-candy, adding visual appeal to an otherwise blah CLI.

To me, a properly designed GUI would be truly intuitive. For this to happen, the interface would need to be true 3D, just like our world. Something we can almost tangibly touch and see as if it is real, right in front (or behind) us.

Instincts are a powerful God given asset. They provide us subconscious insight that our intellect alone may not see. In a proper GUI our instincts can aide us in our task at hand, rather than leaving us to our intellect only.

I believe if I was in this GUI, with the computer "desktop" floating around me in 3D, I could utilize my machine faster, and my physical responses would be much faster than I could ever perform with a mouse. Think about utilizing both hands and both feet to do your job?

I don't believe this type of GUI should be too far in the future. We already have 3D games capable of virtual reality. Why not use that technology to create a desktop?
 
Old 08-05-2007, 05:57 AM   #26
SCerovec
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Only thing I can imageine using my two hands and both foots for GUI is landing on my back
I would prefer voice control over that picture first

Imagine:
1. You sitting and gazin trough a window with gorgeous landscape...
2. The computer listens ...
3. John: "Box, invite peter and his girlfriend to lunch tomorrow"
4. Box: "Shall I invite them separately, or both on peter's email"
5. John: "Both"
6. Box: "The mail is sent successfully"
7. silence
8. Box: "You have new mail, shall I read it out?"
9 John: "Yes please..."
10. Box: "Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details,..."



For practice of above scenario, use a pall at You disposal and have him (or her) be the interface between the OS and the operator
 
Old 08-05-2007, 01:48 PM   #27
manlydan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowCoder
I don't believe this type of GUI should be too far in the future. We already have 3D games capable of virtual reality. Why not use that technology to create a desktop?
Such a desktop would eat up resources, making the system much slower than it would be otherwise. Unless you have a monster of a machine with tons of ram, multiple processors, and multiple video cards, then I don't think this kind of desktop would be practical just yet.
 
Old 08-05-2007, 03:53 PM   #28
SlowCoder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manlydan
Such a desktop would eat up resources, making the system much slower than it would be otherwise. Unless you have a monster of a machine with tons of ram, multiple processors, and multiple video cards, then I don't think this kind of desktop would be practical just yet.
Very true. But if you'll remember, it was only about 20 years ago that computers only had 640KB RAM, and had 8MHz processors. 20 years from now, gosh ...

Also, there appears to be a return to centralized and distributed computing. In a few years, we could all be contributing our unused processing cycles for a central means of collaboration. With that type of resource sharing, I can see it as very feasible that we could participate in a true virtual 3D world.

Besides, the technology is already here. We have "Second Life", an online 3D world, created specifically for commerce and collaboration. We have virtual reality hardware (goggles, gloves, body suits that the movie business uses for 3D modelling).

Put all that together, along with the Internet, and you've got something nice.

Last edited by SlowCoder; 08-05-2007 at 03:59 PM.
 
Old 08-05-2007, 04:47 PM   #29
Robhogg
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I use both GUIs and the CLIs (often at the same time, for slightly different purposes). I could not always say exactly why I use one or the other for a particular purpose, other than that it seems right to do so, but (for example) in Linux I will usually search for files using find and/or grep because of the greater flexibility (alas not available with the Windows CLI).

Using databases, it strikes me that the command line is easier when dealing with batches of data (even in MS access, it is often better to edit the SQL directly for complex queries). However, for working with and modifying single records the GUI wins hands-down (and the CLI is a right pain).

At work, we have a Ubuntu server which my colleague usually accesses via VNC. I haven't yet bothered to install the client on my PC, finding ssh the most natural way to work with it.

When using a GUI text editor, I sometimes find myself unconsciously typing <ESC>:w when I want to save.



Rob
 
Old 08-05-2007, 07:06 PM   #30
jerril
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Rob

Thanks for reminding me, I use SSH so often I tend to forget that I connect to my home server using ssh. I can do all of my day-to-day tasks from the shell so I can use any machine in the house to work with my server.

When I was still having problems running Linux on my laptop; it made little difference, I used PuTTy to work with my files.

The shell is the easiest way to work with a remote machine. Now I add the -X option to the SSH command I use to work with my server; this makes it easy to use many of the GUI apps that are on the remote machine.

The odd bit here: if I launch Mozilla from the networked shell -- it uses the client version of Mozilla not the one on the host.

jer
:w

Last edited by jerril; 08-05-2007 at 07:11 PM.
 
  


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