Your main point that most PC users do not care about computer issues, as long as they can use the system effectively without having to put a lot of time and effort into experimenting with it is right on the mark.

Several software vendors have, and continue, to put large amounts of time and effort into collecting applications that are easier to start and use, and drivers that enable as many peripherals as possible to work. The simple fact is that until Linux systems acquire sufficient support that suppliers are willing to produce a driver for them each time they make a new product, we'll continue to be stuck in this two year late phenomena. It's getting better, though. I can tell you that the major video graphics manufacturers have realized that making a Linux driver available is in their best interest. Some of them won't make the source code for those drivers freely available, but they do release binary drivers, which at least helps out. If all hardware vendors would either produce Linux binary drivers or make the source code for their drivers available, the problems you mentioned would disappear.

Meanwhile, you have a point. Linux software can probably reach 50-75% of the market, but even that might be stretching it a bit because many people just don't want to have to deal with driver and compatibility issues.

Remember the hoopla when Windows 95 first came out? It seemed really cool. But do you also remember how many people had difficulties migrating from older stuff to Windows 95? Microsoft had a lot of resources to pour into that issue of support, and they did a pretty good job, overall, with it. But even they, big as they are, had problems with compatibility and driver support. Releases since then have gotten better and better, and most vendors now made sure they can support new versions of Windows.

If Linux software continues to find approval in the marketplace, a day could come when we'll be able to say the same thing. The fact remains, though, is that device support really is an issue.

As far as usability is concerned, with Linux software, you always have the choice to use the command line to do your work. Windows is making it more difficult to even find a command line. I think it is important, for flexibility and maintainability reasons, to have easy access to a range of command line shell systems. I do, however, acknowledge that the average consumer has no need or interest in such things. Therefore, the more consumer oriented systems do a good job of minimizing the need to use the command line. There are quite a few systems out there now that rarely, if ever, require the use of the command line. Good examples are LindowsOS, Lycoris Desktop/LX, JAMD, Knoppix, and Xandros. There are many more. Mandrake is a grreat example of software where you can use the command line, but you certainly don't HAVE to use it. Same with Red Hat and SuSE. Therefore, I think that much progress has been made in these areas, and work continues to be done to further improve the usability of these systems.

You do have a valid point, just the same, and I am acknowledging it.

There certainly is a need for applications that match the depth and characteristics of the commercial applications on the market. The only space where Linux truly matches up or perhaps does even better than Windows are in the areas of file transfer clients, Email, and Web browsing. There are definitely stable and easy to use packages on Linux systems that rival anything available on any system.

In other spaces, there are quite a few good applications, too, some of them worthy of use, a few even comparable to commercial grade applications. There are database systems that can now be found on Linux systems, there are workflow and related applications that are either present or being ported at a rapid pace, but there's plenty of room for improvement.

In many of the areas that you cited, there is still a lot of work that needs to be done to make Linux software commercially viable to the general purpose computing market. There are quite a few markets that are emerging, but only the network oriented areas are really strong at the present time. This is, however, changing and improving constantly, and continues to do so.

It is in fact the Linux community who are MAKING EXCUSES,sorry to say. Are people here in the Middle East scared of linux? MOST DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT LINUX IS!!
Stop blaming the manufacturers and instead suggest to the linux programmers to address this issue---

I repeat-THE ISSUE HERE IS USABILITY!

Let me ask you-Do you own a car? If not are planning to buy one in the future?Would you want to buy a car that in order to run you have to get under the hood and open up the engine? Well THIS IS THE STATE OF LINUX TODAY!

My "car" (Win98SE) is but 5-6 years old. No matter how straight I drive it, it keeps crashing. No point in getting under the hood because it is impossible to see anything wrong.

I work with a load of people who could not get Linux to work on their machines. However, I would safely bet that if someone gave them a computer with no OS, and a Windows CD, and a pile of CDs for all their hardware, they would not know where to start. If you were to buy a computer, with Linux pre-installed correctly, and compatible hardware up and running, you would be able to work it fine. To me the difference is whether you can do it yourself.

For those people who can load Windows but struggle with Linux, I have to say that Linux is catching up, and distributors like Mandrake will ensure that Linux installation will get easier.

By the way, I've spent hours loading Windows trying to get a "Plug and Pray" sound card to register. It's not all plain sailing you know! Little workarounds like going into My Computer / Devices screeen and deleting items to make them re-install properly, you get them with experience. Linux is no different!

I think dual-booting is still the most sensible option. You can learn the Linux apps that are becoming available and use the Windows apps where the Linux ones don't yet do the job (or exist for that matter).

My brief experience (6 months or so) with Linux tells me that Linux is not nearly as complicated as some people say. The software is improving in leaps and bounds, and the day of the all-purpose SoHo computer running Linux is getting closer.

By the way: I reckon if everyone who praises Windows, Microsoft Office, Adobe Photoshop, and the like actually had to pay for the software rather than getting dodgy copies, then they would have to consider the free alternatives. With their onslaught against piracy, M$ may actually be doing Linux a favour

I think it is possible to get under that hood, but it is not easy to do so, and the base system does not provide you with sufficient tools to get the job done. It is possible, however, to obtain and apply those tools. Since the uphostery and the steering wheel have a comfortable feel to them, many people still stick with the vehicle.

...
I agree with these statements. For some consumers, trying out somethng new while keeping what they're most used to using is the smart and wise thing to do. I've been doing that long enough. I graduated from that space, and though I have Windows software available to me, I rarely use it any more, and I don't even include Windows software on my primary system (though another system in the household has it, should I ever run into a situation where I actually need it).

I've used UNIX software since 1982, about the same length of time that I've had exposure to PC software. I've used Linux software since 1995. Based on my experiences, I believe that Linux is just beginning to reach a stage where it is maturing. Compared to the other systems I've seen over the years, it's just as on track as those other systems, and in many ways, has been useful and functional sooner and with greater stability. There is a lot of work yet to be done to improve the timeliness of new hardware support, broaden the range of consumer applications that are available, and generate systems that appeal to a wider cross section of the population. At the present time, Linux software is very usable, and I personally use it for everything. It's not quite there for everyone, but it is already useful for many people. I believe it will continue to improve, and if we don't do it here in the USA, people in other countries will adopt it in greater numbers and make it all that it needs to be, whether we do it or not. I'm not waiting. I use Linux software now for nearly 100% of my software activities, certainly 100% of the time I use my personal system.

Yes, well, if it wasn't for the fact that I still had to do development for windows (GUI code over a flippen command line tool orriginally written for linux) it would have been out the door in the last week after *#@!%$ up all my partition tables, screwing around with my ext2 filesystems, and basically being a pain in the but (Yes, each time after I boot windows, I have to restore a 60GB partition, luckily so far I haven't lost any data - but performing these checks take a couple of hours).

Windoze is out for me. Before it used to be there only for my old scanner, but soon it became clear that buying a linux compatible scanner was a whole lot more productive.

I had similar problems - windoze ate my partitions.

So I just $ rm -rf /mnt/win_c/* so the partition is still there for data storage (awaiting reformating to ext3), then removed the boot entry.

die windows!

About the car analogies earlier on, I think what was said is largely true. Even after two years of using linux, I'm still learning. I understand that when your linux compatible this and that doesn't work even when you follow the howto exactly is rather irritating, especially when you're used windoze, but a little percerverence and you're there, and it's often a simple problem, e.g. with my scanner, I spent hours fiddling with whatever to find that all I needed was a newer libusb.

I guess that's one of the things I like about linux - it makes you learn.

The big issue (and one I was made aware of before I decided to plunge headlong into linux) for me was configuring the system. Configuring the hardware, configuring the software, packages and tarballs and services oh my!

I've been a Windows tech for a few years (phone / onsite support), and though I agree that Windows is probably going to be what most everyone turns to for their computing needs in the next decade or so, I think linux is absolutely fantastic. As everyone has said, the ability to get "under the hood," and to tweak just about everything, let alone really learning how your system works (and not just watching a pretty picture on the screen while your CPU hums innocously). I like the analogy of a manual transmission vs automatic. Automatic is simple; you don't have to think about it, but you don't have as much control or know quite what's going on. With a stick-shift, you may spend a lot more time figuring how to get everything just right, but you learn exactly what is happening

And you can manage stops at traffic lights without having to hold down the brake in level places, drive in snow, get out of mud, drive slowly down mountains without using a brake, etc, all of which is impossible with an automatic. I feel lost without my controls with an automatic and I am terribly uncomfortable driving an automatic.

After you drive a manual shift transmission for a while, it becomes automatic amyhow.

I just spent 4 hours watching Windows 2000 BSOD 4 times and crash/freeze around 8 times trying to install a video capture card for a friend. Boy, if feels good be able to access virtual terminals and desktops and not reboot and crash again.

I keep hearing these fairy tales about people that have stable, operating Windows 2000 installation.

I can truthfully say that every Windows 2000 installation I have seen is only slightly less crashy than Windows 98 Sucky Edition.

This is also true and more so with linux! If somebody here in my place is in that situation he can easily find somebody who can install the softwares for him. I would also bet that if it were linux software he will have a hard time looking for personal help. Perhaps wait for another 5-10 years!

Anyway,I recently found in a magazine article about HP distributing $450 notebooks with Linux preinstalled through the Thai government. Is this good for linux?

I have to say that it is bad for microsoft and equally bad for linux(at the present-take note).Why?
Because of the proliferation of pirated software people buy the cheap notebooks and install pirated windows software! Perhaps in the US you would not do this but in Asia who can stop it?

about this whole learning issue :

You learn using Linux AND using Windows. However I have found that there is one profound difference, using Linux I am learning something which is far more universal and computer related (eg. I learned the difference between usb OHCI and UHCI implementations, and many other things) using linux.

What I learn when I use Windows is how to accomodate sloppy coding, learn to avoid its pitfalls and how to modify and corrupt my perfectly loigical way of thinking into some warped leaps of non-logic which bind different things in Linux.

Someone mentioned adimistration with AD - my answer: HA!!!!!

Admin in Linux is far more intuitive and logical, I could do it in my sleep.

Sad to have to say that in the last week, my count of linux crashes has surpassed my number of windows 2000 crashes. But then again, not everybody mucks around with the ULOG target in iptables. So for those of you wondering how to nuke your linux machine, just make sure your still running a 2.4 kernel, then do the following as root:

iptables -A INPUT -j ULOG --ulog-nlgroup 20
hping 127.0.0.1 -p ++900 -S -c 5

You might need to wait a second or so after hping is done, be sure to do this in a console for the full effect (and also make sure that all your important work is saved and just run a sync in case). Preferably shutdown X entirely. How did I find this? Luck. We are coding a portknock daemon, to allow all kinds of wicked things without actually establishing connections (http://www.kroon.co.za/portknock for more info).

Oh, how to fix this? You will need to recompile your kernel, copy the net/ipv4/netfilter/ipt_ULOG.c file from the new unstable kernel (2.5.72 if I'm not mistaken) to your 2.4.? tree and recompile your 2.4 kernel, oh, don't forget to install it.

I have been using Linux for the past 2 days. I think that what gets my hair on edge with Linux compared to Microsoft is that there is no equivalent Technet support, or none that I have found till now. I am a network and SAP administrator. Untill now I have always used Microsoft products. The reason for changeing is because the market is changing. More and more of my customers are changing to Linux. Why...? Because of the price. Simple equation for management.

Windows does the job, and if there is a problem then there is a multitude of help files or cookbooks to get the job done. I have posted this article today asking for help..http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...threadid=67753

Problem is a newbie like myself sometimes needs cookbooks.

If anyone can help please answer my post

Thx

I know nothing about Networks. However in the UK we have a magazine called Linux Format and they have a Web Site at

http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/

You can get the magazine from them on Subscription and I do know that it can be got outside of the UK.

There are frequent reviews of books at all levels for many purposes, and they have a special insert for computer professionals as well as catering for newbies and home users with just an internet connection.

DAVE

Thanks davecs...makes good reading