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Old 08-30-2003, 12:30 PM   #1
h1tman
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Who else hates this bout *nix users?


you post asking a question.
you come back couple of hours later,seeing a reply, and your like oh cool someone solved or is prob gonna have some suggestions to my problem or answer my question. just to find out the person is telling you to google the question or read something.

i REALLY hate that. if you not gonna post a real reply dont reply. if you know the answer tell me. you have no clue if i googled already and couldnt find an answer that worked for me. and that im posting for anymore suggestions. so saying google it is just wasting both of our times.
 
Old 08-30-2003, 12:39 PM   #2
trickykid
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My personal opinion is:

If you did google.com it or searched on the net, the forums here, tell us. I personally try to not just tell people to search, I'll give them a brief answer if I know it.

But remember, if your question is very vague or is one of those that is asked on an hourly basis, then well, I find it necessary to post with a, "Try to search the forums or google.com/linux it", especially if they didn't specify they hadn't already searched for their answer.

If its that easy and there is great documentation already on it, or a solution in the forums and they claimed they couldn't find it, I'll point them to my findings to show that it was searchable.

But yes, this is not a RTFM type site, only in some occasions which are obvious.

Example 1 to point to the docs or search the forum:

"How do I install Apache?"

Example of a question to give an answer to if you know it:

"I'm getting such and such error when installing Apache, any ideas?"

Regards.
 
Old 08-30-2003, 12:44 PM   #3
Tesl
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it depends. When its a real problem then people will give all the help they can. Sometimes its basic problems where its evident that people havent bothered to search themselves for it, and what the answers served up on a plate to them.

Its more commonly found with *nix users because they encourage people to learn and find the solutions themselves. Quite often people ask a question here, and if you copy and paste their question into google you get the correct answer. Why should i google it because you dont want to?

its very rare iv seen a reply "google it" to questions that show the person has at least made an effort. At times its not deserved, but it usually is.
 
Old 08-30-2003, 02:30 PM   #4
kev82
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ive never as far as i remember told somebody to rtfm or just said google it, i generally try to give enough help to point the person in the right direction without actually giving them the answer. i dont believe in just giving the answer because it only really helps in the very short term. its the "give a man a fish and he lives for a day, but teach a man to fish and he lives for a lifetime(and he can teach others to fish)" argument. i personally have no patience with people who are not willing to read documentation and i dont think they should be using any piece of technology never mind *nix.

what really annoys me are the people who ask questions like:
  1. [insert program name] doesnt work
  2. how do i [massive topic that couldnt possibly be explained in a single post and has also been asked many many times]
  3. i did [something] and got an error, help me
there is no excuse for asking these kind of questions, just being in an unfamiliar environment doesnt give you the right to be stupid and expect the community to spoonfeed you, if thats what you want call a tech helpline.

we help here for free, if you dont like the way we do it then go else where.

<edit> heres the perfect example of what i mean, someone on the general forum has posted "is there apache for windows", if that doesnt deserve a STFW(nicley phrased though) i dont know what does.

Last edited by kev82; 08-30-2003 at 02:49 PM.
 
Old 08-30-2003, 02:32 PM   #5
Whitehat
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Re: Who else hates this bout *nix users?

Quote:
Originally posted by h1tman
... you have no clue if i googled already and couldnt find an answer that worked for me. ....
WRONG!!!!

If I take someone's problem and search google on it, like I do most of the time, and I find a solution within' like 2 minutes....something is wrong!

It's very apparent that this person didn't do sh!t to find an answer. They just want everyone else do do the work for them.

I have ZERO tollerance or simpathy for that. People need to get off their lazy butts and do a good 20+ minutes of searching and stuff before the begin posting.

The other thing is this. If you don't find it on Google, you'll find it here most likely if you do a search here.

I find tons of stuff here and I don't even have to post a question because I did a search first

I think most of the other members will agree. It's only when we see questions that are very short, or vague with hardly any info that we tell them to do a search.


 
Old 08-30-2003, 02:32 PM   #6
fancypiper
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How to get good answers with your questions about Linux
 
Old 08-30-2003, 02:56 PM   #7
flapjackboy
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NNNyyyyaaaarrgggh...

Must...resist...urge...to...flame...original...poster...

*finger twitches nervously on flamethrower*
 
Old 08-30-2003, 03:28 PM   #8
MasterC
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All dogs bite. All cars are fast. All computers suck. All grass is green. All pizza is the same.

Stereo-typing EVERY *nix user doesn't really hold a good case for ya buddy

I'd venture to say that maybe even half of the new users don't even know what RTFM is the first time they see it, so therefore, they'd surely not give it as an answer

Cool
 
Old 08-30-2003, 03:43 PM   #9
flapjackboy
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Can I flame him? Pllleeeeeaaassseeeee?

I don't think I can hold it back any longer...

*skin starts turning green....*
 
Old 08-30-2003, 03:43 PM   #10
h1tman
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i was a mac user for a long time, and whenever i had a problem i always got help. noone ever told me go google for the answer.

once i asked about Suse's stock options. someone told me to google it, i replied i did and couldnt find nothing, then he said try frankfurt exchange, i replied i did couldnt find no information, he replied back wit a link to the frnkfurt exchange, i replied i found the link but theres nothing about Suse's quote. the thread at like 10 posts before finally someone came in and said Suse's stock isnt public or something.

i googled, searched and couldnt find the answer, so i figured someone would know so i posted only to get some lame telling me to google for it like hes a great help.

if i say something like whats the command to list the files in a directory, okay maybe you can flame me, tell me to look in DOCS, or google.

but google or the docs aint always the answer.

and its like always the first reply telling you to google, like you guys are just waiting for someone to post so you can rush and say google to make yourself feel are guruish.

Last edited by h1tman; 08-30-2003 at 03:45 PM.
 
Old 08-30-2003, 03:47 PM   #11
Whitehat
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Quote:
Originally posted by h1tman
but google or the docs aint always the answer.
...um......most of the time they are.

Especially www.google.com/linux

Try it
 
Old 08-30-2003, 03:52 PM   #12
MasterC
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Quote:
Originally posted by h1tman
and its like always the first reply telling you to google, like you guys are just waiting for someone to post so you can rush and say google to make yourself feel are guruish.
Again "You guys"... Stereotyping all *nix users in a category saying all of them "RTFM" doesn't really work, as that's obviously and completely untrue..

Cool
 
Old 08-30-2003, 04:04 PM   #13
RolledOat
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I agree somewhat (there are unhelpful people everywhere), but on the other hand... I don't use Mandrake, I don't use Suse, I use Redhat. At least a dozen times here, and 150 times at JustLinux, I have found the answer to complex Mandrake and Suse problems such as 'How to change default KDE font' or 'How to add user' in the manual at their web site, the same help that is installed on their computer, cleverly hidden behind the life preserver icon, with the chapter called 'Configuring your Desktop' or other cryptic title of 'User Configuration'. Even then, I post the link, OCCASIONALLY throw in some light sarcasm and be on my way. If I can find it in the basic user guides within 30 seconds, well, sometimes, you just have to say RTFM or sarcastically say..'See that CD marked Documentation...insert that in your CD drive and investigate the contents.'

The other side of the coin, for many many posts, people get their answer, move on and never let you know if it helped. It would be unfair to generalize, however, all newbies as 'ungrateful leaches' as much as '*nix users'.

RO
 
Old 08-30-2003, 04:06 PM   #14
kev82
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to h1tman:

ive just read the particular thread you are referring to and you didnt provide any evidence that you had googled or showed any effort at all. i think the problem here was how you asked the question, perhaps if you had phrased it more like

"hi, ive noticed red hat has a quote in the stock market but i am unable to find one for suse, ive googled and found the following sites [links] but nothing related to suse, any help appreciated"

bigjohn didnt tell you that you would find information at the frankfurt exchange he merely said that would be a good place to start. your reply "how much a share" doesnt say i went but couldnt find information, it says i cant be arsed to look can you spoon feed me the answer. so i think the replies you got were perfectly reasonable.

remember we cant read your mind, all we have to go on is what you type. before you post just think to yourself what would i think if i was on the other end.
 
Old 08-30-2003, 06:28 PM   #15
h1tman
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not talking about bigjohn, talking about the mod

"Possibly you'll need to google.com it... " followed by the sacarsm smiley.

thats after i replied how much a share. then i replied i said how much a share becuz i couldnt find it.

he might as well as told me to google for honda accords, becuz both sites probably had the information i was looking for. you guys keep saying usually when i google i find it. well if any of them had googled themselves or searched the website they was forcing me to look at, wouldve noticed it didnt have the information.

like i said this is mostly *nix users. if i goto a board that isnt populated by linux users, and say hey whats this MSBlast virus all about?you get people telling you useful information. post that on a *nix board and you get flamed like google it, read the source code, or some shit.

if you dont wanna answer the question dont answer it!if you think its too stupid to give a real reply to, dont reply!if you dont know the answer, dont tell the person to keep looking for the answer!

*nix users for most part have a superiority complex. they believe becuz they are linux users they are smarter than a mac/win user or are now able to flame newbies. even if they are a newbie themselves! ive seen people who just installed linux for the first time, tryna be a smart ass to another newbie.

tru its not every linux user, but a way larger percent than mac or windows users.

Last edited by h1tman; 08-30-2003 at 06:30 PM.
 
  


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