While there are certainly some developers who work on revolutionary ideas and experiment with the "neat stuff", the bulk of programmers work on creating or refining specific tools to do specific tasks.

If there is a need for something, developers create it (that how Linux started in the first place). Toys and eye candy are all well and good but the primary focus of computing is still to get certain tasks accomplished quickly and efficiently. That will always be the primary focus of software development, as it should be.

If there is a need, it will be created.

Some people stick to the idea that Linux is somehow competing with windows and other operating systems, which simply isn't true. Ease of use, more sophisticated desktops, smoother and better apps, are all be developed to fill a need, not as a means of competing with other systems.

The fact that more people are switching from windows to Linux is evidence that the developers a re doing a good job and that people are becoming less satisfied with their old operating systems. It is a side effect of better, more sophisticated development, not marketing or market competition.

Some of the big commercial distro companies are competing with the others for market share, and in those cases they must develop their software along the lines of their competition, but for the majority of open source development, they are simply building the tools needed to get the job done without any marketing focus.

Where are we going? Right where we need to go to fill the needs of the Linux users, which right now is desktop development. Tomorrow, who knows?

I'm afraid that satisfying immediate needs instead of having a more open look to the whole thing will bring linux from where it came: hackers and developers use only. I think people don't know what they want from a PC, they just go out and buy one because it could be useful in their minds.
But, above all, the problem is also that people expect the system to understand themselves.
For example, is it easier for a user to imagine that he has got a document in his PC or to know in which virtual place called directory there is a file which represents its document?
The reason why people become interested in linux is because they're sick of viruses, blue screens, errors, etc. typical of windows. Some choose linux because of price of good-working alternatives to famous applications (expecially in scientific fields). Some other just to say "I've got it", and some for personal philosophy. But the next versions of Windows and Mac OS will surely find solutions to reduce this problem, and if the community does not work on it, they will be one step beyond!

Ya, looking-glass is just more "eye-candy" crap and it also sucks up the CPU cycles.........after awhile you grow out of the eye-candy stage and you just want a Linux system with use-ability and functionality.........

I never tried it, but it's quite clear that Sun wants people to use it to make them upgrade their hardware, thus bringing some manufacturers from their side. But the open source spirit is a lot far from that...

QUOTE :: "but it's quite clear that Sun wants people to use it to make them upgrade their hardware, thus bringing some manufacturers from their side ..."

thats is the reason why using an os like Linux is "thinkable" for "simple" people like us instead of as something which is totally unthinkable as before , back in those days of those C guys(really old school one) , being stopped by security officers when returning home from abroad for the reason of exporting a national "secrets" or "ammunition" ... but those are just really todays low-end gamebox ...


QUOTE :: "But the open source spirit is a lot far from that..."

that "open source spirit" do need good hardwares(by todays standards) commonly accessible for the "simple" public inorder for it to strive and grow continuely , i mean only hardwares which are open to all and hence are to the advantage of the open source and free softwares communities ...


todays mouseless-desktop-headgears are "eye-candy" crap-shits of yesterdays "Looking Glass" celeron 400(please dont laugh) super-computers ...



or is it ??

Yeah, but they're the same users who keep clogging up the forums with "It doesn't work like Windows, so Linux is crap" posts - The last thing we need is more users who want to turn Linux into a surrogate Windows.

I still don't see you point. About all it seems to boil down into is "Somebody should have a really great idea that'll make Linux really good." Which is more of a blinding flash of the obvious than an insight.

I think alred and oneandoneis2 are missing the sense of the discussion. I'm just saying that I'm worried because GNOME, KDE, etc. are strictly following their competitors in means of look'n'feel, and also the "new things" we're waiting for are not that much new and original. This really makes Windows and Mac OS a kind of objective to reach, rather then competitors to beat (of course in the case that free OSes want to impose themselves as really user-friendly systems for home users).
A progressive community like the open source one which developed X, gcc, Linux, BSDs, GNOME, Wine, etc. and which has been for a long time on the cutting edge, is now looking back to the users totally forgetting about new possibilities of concept to introduce into the computing world.
This is no more the free world it used to be! It is becoming another place for massive commercial operations!

in your opinion , rather than theres "no new possibilities of concept to introduce into the computing world" and possibily "becoming another place for massive commercial operations" , what do you think the "community" should be doing or what sorts of "new thing" they should work on or in short , on what kind of direction they should head towards for ??

i gave some examples before in this thread of what could be done, but the answer is just one: thinking and putting into practice a new concept of the way we interact with computers!
As I already said for example we could forget about filesystems and instead substitute database-like structures for data, or we could try to use for the first time some ai process or feature into the system or build an everything-to-everything converter... These are quite utopistic things for a normal programmer, but however things like these could bring in some fresh air... a lot of! but noone seems to be interested in such things

KDE, and Gnome to a lesser extent, are aimed at users who want a Windows-like environment. Of course they have the same look & feel - that's what they WANT.

Have you looked at Enlightenment? Fluxbox? FVWM? Or any of the dozen other window managers I can think of offhand that are doing exactly what you want and creating completely new ways for a desktop to work?

Oh good, we could be dazzlingly new and different with a copy of Microsoft's WinFS. . .

I don't think there's a lack of innovation in the OSS community. From your posts, I think the problem is you just aren't aware of it.

So true!
Hard to imagine though...

you simply can't compare fvwm, fluxbox etc. to GNOME and KDE in terms of usability and you can't say they are not in a real ancient retro style! you can't even for fluxbox! i think that an interesting thing is the mezzo desktop, don't know if you ever heard about that...
about winfs, i really don't know how it works and in what kind of state it is now... however it was just an idea, there were other two if i'm not wrong...
stop attacking me and start to think at what i'm saying with a little bit of self-criticism

Charred
in case you hadn't seen this
I thought you might enjoy the article

http://humorix.org/articles/2004/05/tinfoil/

maybe a change from tin-foil
to some sort of super-conducting super cooled ceramic hat
covered in radar absorbing carbon fibre based paint

floppy

floppy,
I laughed so hard it scared my children! I even bookmarked the site (a rarity for me)!
Not only did you earn a tinfoil hat, you earned an upgrade for yourself and everyone who already received one!

NOTICE:
All Detectotronix tinfoil hats are hereby upgraded to Invis-O-Matic Imaginary Ceram-I-Core Composite! And there was much rejoicing!