What do you think about Java as an academic language? (WARNING: rant)

sundialsvcs · 02-11-2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mega Man X

Well, I just wanted to say that I am 28 yo. Even though I believe you were joking when calling me (apparently) a kid, I believe you are very old and have been coding since the mid 70's when vi was invented right? Well mate, surprise for you: Programs today are far more complex, has a huge amount of lines of code and also have not only to be good at communicating with the machine itself, but also with the user, with a nice, fancy gui. You can't do that in VI. If you can, it sure isn't practical. And you will rarely see only one programmer maintaining/developing the program behind his desk alone.

Dads today, I tells ye. You've to get with the times...

Snicker... Guffaw... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAA!

As I have heard it told, there are three levels of knowledge:

First, you do know what you don't know. (Humility.)
Then, you don't know what you don't know. (Hubris.)
Finally, you don't know what you do know. (Mastery.)

Good sir, you have been alive only slightly longer than I have been working, and I ain't dead yet.

At this point in your nascent(!) career, you're probably still on "level two." Everything that you have encountered so-far you relate to your own experience, and what does not relate to that, you dismiss as irrelevant.

In the coming decades, you will undoubtedly encounter plenty of new systems and approaches that make today's GUI-systems look pathetic. (In fact, such systems are already here.) You'll find that all of your existing perspective on "the way things are" will be repeatedly blown out of the water; you will constantly be pushed out of your comfort zone, or else you will abandon this business for good. You'll gravitate toward some manageable and enjoyable corner of this ever-expanding universe of possibilities and eck out your career there.

And you will shake your head in faint embarrassment at the absurdity of the above quote. Those around you will, however, understand. We have all, at one time or another, been there too.

So if you suppose that I am making fun of you, please don't. You might not grok this quite right now, but I'm not.

gfiu · 02-13-2008, 03:35 AM

Is this really about Java? Or is it more about general dissatisfaction of students? There are rules and regulations in uni, you cant just go ahead and do whatever you like. Besides, they dont only train you technically but also socially, making you a member of the community of computer scientists. Introducing you to the ways of conduct here. Peace.

vxc69 · 02-13-2008, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs

Snicker... Guffaw... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAA!

As I have heard it told, there are three levels of knowledge:

First, you do know what you don't know. (Humility.)
Then, you don't know what you don't know. (Hubris.)
Finally, you don't know what you do know. (Mastery.)

Good sir, you have been alive only slightly longer than I have been working, and I ain't dead yet.

At this point in your nascent(!) career, you're probably still on "level two." Everything that you have encountered so-far you relate to your own experience, and what does not relate to that, you dismiss as irrelevant.

In the coming decades, you will undoubtedly encounter plenty of new systems and approaches that make today's GUI-systems look pathetic. (In fact, such systems are already here.) You'll find that all of your existing perspective on "the way things are" will be repeatedly blown out of the water; you will constantly be pushed out of your comfort zone, or else you will abandon this business for good. You'll gravitate toward some manageable and enjoyable corner of this ever-expanding universe of possibilities and eck out your career there.

And you will shake your head in faint embarrassment at the absurdity of the above quote. Those around you will, however, understand. We have all, at one time or another, been there too.

So if you suppose that I am making fun of you, please don't. You might not grok this quite right now, but I'm not.

Oh wow, thanks for that. Now I have something amazing(not) to look forward to. *shivers*

vxc69 · 02-13-2008, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gfiu

Is this really about Java? Or is it more about general dissatisfaction of students? There are rules and regulations in uni, you cant just go ahead and do whatever you like. Besides, they dont only train you technically but also socially, making you a member of the community of computer scientists. Introducing you to the ways of conduct here. Peace.

Well don't you get the social bit online, after all, most computer science geeks hang out in forums like this don't they? And the answer to your question is, it's both, the dissatisfaction of students stemmed from Java, BlueJ to be specific.

Oh and my module using BlueJ finished. I have to admit that for some of the lab/course work they designed it with BlueJ in mind so it was actually helpful to use BlueJ (like you don't need a main method to test stuff out). As for Java all I can say is that it's a really bloated language built with efficiency in mind, not speed, and it's kinda boring to code in, but that's my opinion anyways.

Thanks for the discussion guys.

Mega Man X · 02-13-2008, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs

In the coming decades, you will undoubtedly encounter plenty of new systems and approaches that make today's GUI-systems look pathetic. (In fact, such systems are already here.) You'll find that all of your existing perspective on "the way things are" will be repeatedly blown out of the water; you will constantly be pushed out of your comfort zone, or else you will abandon this business for good. You'll gravitate toward some manageable and enjoyable corner of this ever-expanding universe of possibilities and eck out your career there.

And you will shake your head in faint embarrassment at the absurdity of the above quote. Those around you will, however, understand. We have all, at one time or another, been there too.

So if you suppose that I am making fun of you, please don't. You might not grok this quite right now, but I'm not.

I understand your point. And I totally agree with you. I mean, things change a lot and we can't keep up with everything, especially in the IT-industry.

I must say... I don't really like computers (used to, though), so I hope that I won't have to work with them for the rest of my life. They used to be a hobby, but when you turn a hobby into a job, it almost always stops being fun. That and the fact that you need a new hobby

If I could have chosen my path, I'd ratter be a farmer, a fisherman or a truck driver. I hate sitting inside an office all day long.

v00d00101 · 02-15-2008, 12:55 PM

At my university if you do anything network related you get to learn java. But anything generic will get you visual basic and c++. After two years of Java, and an arsey lecturer, i moved to the generic course, and it is so much better, and more how i imagined programming to be.

Similar to Mega Man X, if i could take it all back to before uni, i'd have (personally) followed my dream into Archaeology. Forget computers unless you appreciate intensely boring days, probably sorting out the problems of whining minions...sorry, other employees in the company.

If you are reading this considering a job in computers, then read through some of the parts of this forum and ask yourself, do you want to end up like the rest of us?

frenchn00b · 02-16-2008, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vxc69

This is a bit of a rant, so don't take it too seriously.

I'm now studying java as part of my first year in university. Talk with most of the senior students who do computer science tell me that Java is what we learn mainly throughout.

I'm jumping ahead of myself here so I might sound arrogant when I say this (then again I might only be arrogant because of my ignorance, hence I'm looking for LQ's opinion on it, so cast your pearls of wisdom upon me

).

I feel like this isn't a very good university education. I came to learn things much more low level like Assembler/C. Learning Java makes me feel like a corporate stooge who's being trained to use the corporations products, if you get what I mean.

No really, if I wanted to learn how to use Java and it's libraries I'd stay at home, save my money, and learn it online with the help of a good book!!!

End of Rant

vxc
p.s: Don't tell me to get a blog, I've heard that one before!

nope,
Nothing better than pascal, C and C++
(not java to start)

vxc69 · 02-01-2018, 07:11 AM

It's amazing to read this after 11 years. How I've personally morphed from the state I was in when I originally posted and how I am now, more like the older posters. Kind thanks to all you gracious strangers on LQ for steering me in the right direction back then. I wonder where you all are now and what your thoughts are about this industry and our shared hobbies.

I should pay it forward.