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Old 08-11-2003, 11:21 AM   #1
itsjustme
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What are they thinking?


The more I see reports like this, the more it pisses me off. And I'm a very laid back guy normally.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech....ap/index.html

[snippet]
But unemployed tech workers contend that so many good jobs are going to places like Bombay, Bangalore and Beijing that honing their technical skills is futile. According to the research firm Gartner Inc., one out of 10 technology jobs in the United States will move overseas by the end of next year.
[/snippet]

If this trend continues, how does anybody expect the US economy to survive? There's got to be some diminishing returns out there soon, when there's nobody left here to acquire the products and services that companies are offering.

It just seems unpatriotic for companies to abandon their country for a profit.

I'd probably be more complacent about it if I wasn't laid off.

 
Old 08-11-2003, 11:35 AM   #2
synaptical
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corporations don't give a d*mn about "patriotism," especially multinational global corporations. they exist to make a profit, end of story. they are in fact mandated *by law* to make profit. so corporatism has replaced capitalism -- we are now in the age of "post-capitalism." and in corporate post-capitalism, the basic human needs of the individual and the welfare of the community (and of the planet) are irrelevant to the mandate for profit -- secondary at best, but mostly irrelevant. the political leaders we elect therefore becomes a very important issue, as it becomes necessary to elect people who are not beholden to the corporate right-wing interests (World Bank, WTO, GW "Global Warming" Bush, Dick "war for oil" Cheney, etc.) who are heavily invested in furthering that agenda and economic model.
 
Old 08-11-2003, 11:48 AM   #3
sk8guitar
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hear hear
 
Old 08-11-2003, 12:55 PM   #4
Blinker_Fluid
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Quote:
Originally posted by synaptical
corporations don't give a d*mn about "patriotism," especially multinational global corporations. they exist to make a profit, end of story. they are in fact mandated *by law* to make profit. so corporatism has replaced capitalism -- we are now in the age of "post-capitalism." and in corporate post-capitalism, the basic human needs of the individual and the welfare of the community (and of the planet) are irrelevant to the mandate for profit -- secondary at best, but mostly irrelevant. the political leaders we elect therefore becomes a very important issue, as it becomes necessary to elect people who are not beholden to the corporate right-wing interests (World Bank, WTO, GW "Global Warming" Bush, Dick "war for oil" Cheney, etc.) who are heavily invested in furthering that agenda and economic model.
Was following you there for a while... Then you took a left turn and I got lost...
First part basically said If a company doesn't make money they go out of business... (in theory this works ) Hiring workers for less $ would help a corporation do that... Back to Economics 101 2 goods A and B equal quality and design. A is made down the street, B is made some other place, A sells for $10, B sells for $5 What one are you going to buy? and why?

Second part your rant about Corporate Right-wing interests... Care to elaborate? Don't tell me you would have rather had Al "hug a tree" Gore...
 
Old 08-11-2003, 01:05 PM   #5
itsjustme
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Wait a sec...

I really intended this thread to be a simple rant about sending jobs 'offshore' and firing people in this country.
 
Old 08-11-2003, 01:22 PM   #6
trickykid
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Maybe this is why I plan to go back to school and get my degree in something other than computers... And only deal with computers as a hobby... etc.
 
Old 08-11-2003, 01:37 PM   #7
synaptical
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blinker_Fluid
First part basically said If a company doesn't make money they go out of business... (in theory this works )
sure they do. but corprations already are making billions of dollars in profits:

http://www.bea.doc.gov/briefrm/tables/ebr7.htm

the problem is greed, not going out of business. the corporations who are sending the work overseas for pennies an hour in China for example could pay a living wage to american workers and still make profit and not go out of business. everyone wins.

in the "rape and pillage" model we have now, however, corporations that are mandated to higher and higher profit *AT ANY COST* can't compete with the other greed mongers who are selling out the american worker, so they have little choice but to follow suit in these destructive practices. where does the cycle end?

Quote:
Second part your rant about Corporate Right-wing interests... Care to elaborate? Don't tell me you would have rather had Al "hug a tree" Gore...
Al Gore is one of the most intelligent people in the mainstream US political spectrum today. GWB, on the other hand... hundreds of US economists including Nobel Prize winners correctly point out that Bush is engaging in little more than trickle-down voodoo economics and looting the US economy.

Al Gore at least would not have sold out the poor and middle class to give massive tax breaks to the rich corporations (so they could "create jobs," yeah, right -- which even if they manage to do, they do it where? right, overseas). he also would not have made massively regressive rollbacks in EPA regulations that were designed to protect the environment (as Bush has done), nor massively infringed our rights with putatively anti-terrorist "Patriot Act" legislation (as Ashcroft has done), nor waged a war for oil that has caused death and much suffering (as Cheney/Halliburton has done).

also don't forget that under Clinton/Gore 23 million new jobs were created, while under Bush we have lost 3 million jobs (and counting) -- the most since Herbert Hoover and the Great Depression. under Clinton/Gore we had a balanced budget and we paid down the debt, whereas now under Bush we have the largest projected budget deficit in history.

were Clinton/Gore perfect, blameless and innocent? of course not. see this excellent article, for example: http://www.rachel.org/bulletin/index.cfm?issue_ID=507 the political realities of today are such that one can only get elected if one is backed by big money. but on the whole, the "left" tends to be more socially responsible than the right, and less ruthless and immoral in the way it sets and conducts policy. in simple terms, the backers of the left, while still in the main corporatist, are just not as bad for everyone as those of the right.

>edit, fixed link

Last edited by synaptical; 08-11-2003 at 01:43 PM.
 
Old 08-11-2003, 02:05 PM   #8
Blinker_Fluid
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Quote:
Originally posted by itsjustme
Wait a sec...

I really intended this thread to be a simple rant about sending jobs 'offshore' and firing people in this country.
It's never that simple... But I agree with you that it sucks. I was laid off in Feb. unemployed for 4 months and finally settled for a 20%+ paycut just to start working again.
 
Old 08-11-2003, 02:23 PM   #9
synaptical
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yeah, politics aside, it really does suck.

this article mentions bush, but it's really about the joblessness on a more individual level -- i thought it was pretty good, at least.

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16572

hopefully things will turn around soon for everyone, but so far there sadly seems to be not much end in sight.
 
Old 08-11-2003, 03:00 PM   #10
Blinker_Fluid
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Quote:
in the "rape and pillage" model we have now, however, corporations that are mandated to higher and higher profit *AT ANY COST* can't compete with the other greed mongers who are selling out the american worker, so they have little choice but to follow suit in these destructive practices. where does the cycle end?
The cycle never ends. In this imaginary world where businesses are trying to rape and pilage and are sending the work to China for pennies on the dollar who benefits? Where is the Money? Don't tell me BGEC (Big Giant Evil Corp) is just putting all the money in a vault somewhere never to be seen again. BGEC has to produce something. I assume that BGEC has some competitors and someone who buys the product. How much is the Made in <insert country of choice> label worth? There are additional costs to shipping labor overseas. What happens when The Chinese (example synaptical referenced) decide that they have the corner on the market? The $2 an hour isn't enough You can pay the $10/hr to them or find someone else... OR the $2 an hour isn't bad but then you have the cost of paying the taxes to the govt., import fees, export fees, red tape, political, sociological, environmental, etc where is the point where you would rather pay someone local.

on to Mr Gore (inventor of the internet)
Quote:
Al Gore is one of the most intelligent people in the mainstream US political spectrum today. GWB, on the other hand... hundreds of US economists including Nobel Prize winners correctly point out that Bush is engaging in little more than trickle-down voodoo economics and looting the US economy.
So Taxcuts are bad? If I don't get a taxcut then some BGEC must have got it?
Quote:
Al Gore at least would not have sold out the poor and middle class to give massive tax breaks to the rich corporations (so they could "create jobs," yeah, right -- which even if they manage to do, they do it where? right, overseas).
So those poor people that don't pay any taxes were not given a tax cut? Would you like to pay people because they are poor? I seem to remember something about a per child increase (rich/poor/middle class benefit)
I also remember something about capital gains tax cut (probably what you are complaining about). So the middle class does not hold any stock? They never purchase stock in the company they work for?
Let's just make this clear right now... I would be considered middle class right now... I have purchased stock. I have also sold stock. I also bought the stock when I was making a whole $5 an hour (probably would have classified as poor) held the stock for 10 years and sold it when I bought my house.
What right does the Government have to this money? I paid taxes on it when I got paid originally... Paid taxes each year on the Dividends and paid when I sold the stock. If I would have blown the $ on hookers and beer I wouldn't have been taxed over and over again... maybe that's what the government wants me to do...

Quote:
he also would not have made massively regressive rollbacks in EPA regulations that were designed to protect the environment (as Bush has done), nor massively infringed our rights with putatively anti-terrorist "Patriot Act" legislation (as Ashcroft has done), nor waged a war for oil that has caused death and much suffering (as Cheney/Halliburton has done).
Good old EPA... Going too broad... lets just say maybe some of the EPA things are a little too strict...
 
Old 08-11-2003, 03:33 PM   #11
itsjustme
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blinker_Fluid
It's never that simple...
Yeah, you're right.

My comment now reminds me of that Charlie Brown cartoon, where Linus and Lucy and Charlie are sitting out on the lawn and looking up at the clouds and Linus says something about, "ah, I see the stoning of Stephen..." and Lucy says, "ah, and there's the Apostle Paul standing nearby..." and Charlie looks down and says something like, "Well, I was gonna say I saw horsies and duckies...."



(Hey - I forgot Linus was a Charlie Brown character. )




A little humor to get my mind off my plight.

Edit:
I found this online:
Quote:
Lucy says, "Aren't the clouds beautiful? They look like big balls of cotton." She continues. "I could just lie here all day and watch them drift by. If you use your imagination, you can see lots of things in the cloud formations. What do you think you see, Linus?"

He answers, "Those clouds up there look to me like a map of the British Honduras in the Caribbean. That cloud over there looks a little like the profile of Eakins, the famous painter and sculptor. And that group over there gives me the impression of the stoning of Stephen...I can see the apostle Paul standing there to one side..."

Lucy interrupts, "That's very good...what do you see, Charlie Brown?"

He says, "I was going to say I saw a duckie and a horsy, but I changed my mind."

Last edited by itsjustme; 08-11-2003 at 03:43 PM.
 
Old 08-11-2003, 04:13 PM   #12
Blinker_Fluid
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Sorry I've probably made this thread way too political. Guess I need to stick to looking for Horsies and ducks...

Maybe it's my recent unemployment experience or just scepticism of the government .
now for some mindless rambling!
I was laid off in Feb. like I said, I even qualified for some grant from the government because of foreign competition. Could have qualified for Schooling, health care help, extended unemployment and some other stuff. I've graduated with a BS in Information Systems so I really didn't want to go back to school and I had to wait until severance ran out before I could collect any unemployment (a whopping 40% of my previous salary). I finally got sick of all the BS and found a job making what I did 3 years ago. Call it a McJob... but at least it's a job...
Hang in there.
 
  


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