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jamison20000e 10-31-2013 09:11 PM

Voice of The People
 
http://vop.org/media-center/multimedia/
http://vop.org/the-solution/

I've never been into voting and have always thought if we vote on policies instead of humans I would so this sound like a good idea not quite like Nielsen ratings but open source for politics, could help bring democracy back rather than hiring to gridlock it?

frankbell 10-31-2013 09:18 PM

My father taught me that voting is not a right, it's a duty. And not voting is giving up your voice. Sure, sometimes the choice is between lousy and lousier, but lousy is still better than lousier.

Voting for candidates is the only game we got. I can't imagine a system in which voting for policies could be implemented on any scale larger than a town meeting.

jamison20000e 10-31-2013 09:25 PM

If the $y$tem$ broke voting to fix it is all I see.

jamison20000e 11-01-2013 03:40 AM

If I vote it's not my voice but this is. Basically I do not see fixing this able to fix an archaic system supporting among other things, slavery...(dollar signs implied.) Way back in highschool I asked my history teacher (a "football" coach) why we had to learn it, his reply so we don't make the same mistakes my rebuttal aren't we at war? (desert storm)

frankbell 11-01-2013 08:32 PM

It ain't a perfect world, but that is all the less reason to give up on trying to improve it.

In Australia, voting is mandatory. http://www.aec.gov.au/faqs/voting_australia.htm

I am not arguing for mandatory voting, but the importance of voting is shown by the efforts of some in the U. S. to make voting more difficult. By not voting, citizens play right into the hands of those who would restrict the franchise.

And, with that, I'm bowing out of this thread, because, really, I've said what I have to say on the topic. Saying it over won't make it more or less valid or more or less defensible.

jamison20000e 11-02-2013 11:30 PM

Thanks Frank, I understand your argument and that voting for a genius or a genius (or even try running to be one) is kind of all we get. For now, possibly even luckily? Many(?) probably take the jobs first to help but then the second reason makes and kills sheep* the only thing that could sway my opinion is “common-sense” e.g: math and science; NObody's perfect! Can a system be prefect (especially a free one minus K1?) It damn sure can tick me off! Those who seek to diagnose and "lead"\herd make war and\or claims only to be disproven or get away with it (I'm not saying that some goods aren't done (Voting for a genius wont do it.) or tried but can only improve or vise versa) ... (optimistically history proves we
learn v-e--ry __s—.l.-—.o——.w. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . .
I don't think enough people can imagine being unlucky enough to be born a terrorist* or that they could be?.edu
(you may recognize this from someones signature around here:)
"A nation is a group of persons united by the common error of their ancestry and a common dislike of their neighbors."
—Karl W
I personally live on a planet.

Z038 11-03-2013 01:17 AM

The act of voting signals your acquiescence (submission, fealty) to the State. By the act of voting, you confer your natural right to determine your own course to some group of others, who assure you that the limitations they impose on you are only those that are necessary for the good of "society", and that they are approved by "the majority". You abdicate responsibility for your own life and actions by voting, because you submit to the authority of another to decide what you may or may not do. In short, you resign your liberty.


Quote:

"A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years." [Lysander Spooner]
Quote:

"We vote? What does that mean? It means that we choose between two bodies of real, though not avowed, autocrats. We choose between Tweedledum and Tweedledee." [Helen Keller]
Quote:

"In the United States, the majority undertakes to supply a multitude of ready-made opinions for the use of individuals, who
are thus relieved from the necessity of forming opinions of their own." [Alexis de Tocqueville]
Remember that no matter who you vote for, the winner is always the government.

baldy3105 11-03-2013 10:18 AM

We live in societies where the governing body is decided by voting and that governing body affects your life no matter how independant you think you might be.

If you don't vote, that governing body will be chosen by those who turn up, and those who turn up are those people with a hobby horse to ride. The more apathetic the voting majority is, the more the governing body will cater for and be chosen by the crazy minorities. If you don't vote, you don't get to complain when the kooks start passing weird laws.....

Quote:

“If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”

~ Robert A. Heinlein

jamison20000e 11-03-2013 11:56 AM

Like religions will turn to atheism because there is a better way to learn\teach good, so-too will voters lose interest in hypocri$y*. Perhaps when there is only 40% voting all will relies we cant let those geniuses run things and gain "We the People" back (as if it's ever existed behind borders!) Hypothetically (trapped in the way it is) if you could travel back in time trying to proving internet will exist depending on the era you'd be crazy, locked up or worse so why now don't we use it to make a difference? "Voice of The People" looks like one of many good starts along with LQ... :D

273 11-03-2013 03:18 PM

Of course voting makes a difference: Guantannamo Bay is closed now, isn't it, and the US troops have withdrawn from Iraq too. Oh, no, wait somebody lied to get into power and it turns out they can't, or won't, change anything.
If you don't have a few million to pay in bribes you can't change anything. If you really want to change things don't bother voting join or form a lobby group with a rich sponsor. Be prepared to fail anyhow though and be prepared to leave the country should you step on the wrong toes.
By the way, the first paragraph may refer to the US but the sentiment applies to most of the world.

jamison20000e 11-04-2013 02:13 PM

Do I sense a hint of sarcasm? (hehe)

Voting for the people isn't as good as voting by the people. :scratch:

frankbell 11-04-2013 08:15 PM

Quote:

Of course voting makes a difference: Guantannamo Bay is closed now, isn't it, and the US troops have withdrawn from Iraq too. Oh, no, wait somebody lied to get into power and it turns out they can't, or won't, change anything.
All this tells us is that voting in Congressional elections is at least as important as, if not more important than, voting in Presidential elections.

There's an election in Virginia tomorrow. You can bet your sweet bippie I'll be voting.

jamison20000e 11-05-2013 09:00 PM

A little extreme but:
 
If we had always listen and did everything our parents say to do then we'd still be cannibals and change would not exist.

If I vote or not I can complain but if I stop paying taxes... or, more importantly if "we" stop wasting them!

baldy3105 11-08-2013 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamison20000e (Post 5057716)
Like religions will turn to atheism because there is a better way to learn\teach good, so-too will voters lose interest in hypocri$y*. Perhaps when there is only 40% voting all will relies we cant let those geniuses run things and gain "We the People" back! Hypothetically (trapped in the way it is) if you could travel back in time trying to proving internet will exist depending on the era you'd be crazy, locked up or worse so why now don't we use it to make a difference? "Voice of The People" looks like one of many good starts along with LQ... :D

The problem is that if only 40% vote then the government gets picked by an even smaller minority. The system is broken and fails the vast majority. If you vote, there's no choice except to vote for one set of kleptocrats or another; if you don't vote the minorities who do get to control what little influence on policy there is in voting.

You need proportional representation and a whip free voting system to even approach actual democracy. Revolution is pretty much the only way you will pry the hands of the kleptocrats off the controls....from their cold dead fingers.

jamison20000e 11-08-2013 07:31 AM

Some have almost convinced me as long as I can still wright in Yosemite Sam and put on the ballot what else I think? Voice of The People would be a better extension on voting for change; activism is constant as is thought for revolution which rings bells just like voting to give pockets too much cash\crack!

Add: another thing that'$ mostly a joke 90%(+\-) of all the "news." (Like airing public shootout and other drama$ "thinking" they're helping!)


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