I can't stand it.

BestBuy, FutureShop, all the stupid PC stuff stores as well as a decent one, CompuSmart, are all advertising Windows Vista as being:
"
- Faster, Easier, More Secure
- With a visually stunning experience with Aero
- Powerful new features like Slideshow, Integrated Search, and Flip3D
- Enables you to enjoy all your digital entertainment with added security and reliability"

Who else is tired of seeing this bullcrap? It's not safer, it's still stupid DOS at the core, with a bit of BSD imitation. (DLL handling) All those features Openoffice.org, Google Desktop, and KDE have already have, assuming Flip3D is a cheap ripoff of the Kube thingy.

Plus, it's sure as hell not going to be fast; people here have said to get a windows 98 like interface, you need 256MB of RAM. That's inane. Just for the GUI! And you'll also need 128MB of video RAM, dedicated BTW.

I just saw a desktop for sale, too, a presario. 800$ after mail-in rebates. PentiumD, all-in-one printer, monitor, 1GB RAM, 250GB SATA, integrated graphics (there's no MB on it) and a DVDRW. What's so special? Vista Premium. Dell had the exact same deal for 700$, sans the printer, but that's only 60$ at most places. Dell and Compaq and HP are generally on-par with each other, too.

Now before I asplode, is it still worth buying a PC after they start sticking Vista with it? I can, and WILL, still get my refund, but is it better to buy now and avoid Vista, or is it safe to wait a bit longer? Only worry is that desktops become over-priced, and the refund for Vista doesn't total much.

Yeah your opinions on the Vista bullcrap would be great too.

Well, the safety depends much on who is configuring it. No flame war meant, but read the other threads regarding this subject. And as far as I know, DOS core dropped off somewhere around Win2k..older ones have somekind of "dos core" if we're talking about the same thing, but newer ones definitely not -- XP has a MS-DOS prompt which is far away from the real dos. And don't misunderstand me: in my opinion DOS is a great thing, too bad if it isn't included anymore.

There are a lot of places where you can buy OSes with Linux or with no OS at all, so buy them. If you need to buy the ones at the store window, go ahead, it's your choice to buy a Vista-on-board machine or not. I see no point in you going mad over this thing.

As a last note, those adverts probably come from Microsoft, or at least are reviewed by MS, so probably the stores haven't invented the things themselves. A lot of people are saying things about Linux which aren't true, not without some hazzle at least..so try to cope with it. It's life.

Don't get all riled up too much. Face it, the advertisements in the store are clearly aimed for the non-technical savvy people. Unfortunately as much as the rest of us know that Vista is a completely inferor product, it will still have major success for one, and ONLY one reason, and that is because it will be preinstalled on desktop and notebook computers that the rest of the public will buy. It is inevitable. Maybe this time though with all the DRM crap that is integrated in vista, the public will wake up, I think maybe a very small majority will realize the sheer crap that Vista is, but unfortunately the rest will either not know, or even care, because all the know and feel comfortable with is windows. :shrug: Thats their problem, not ours.

I surely hope that you do not "asplode"--or even explode, implode, or otherwise incur irreversible harm.

If you understand that the success of Microsoft lies in a combination of marketing and vendor alliances, then a new calm will come over you---at least until you think about our ineffectual government with no ability to see the evils of this "de-facto" monopoly.

Let's greet these zealous sales pitches calmly with a few simple questions. Please feel free to add to this list:

1. Please tell me some benefits of Vista that are not available in competing OSes such as OS-X, Linux, or BSD.
2. I am currently evaluating Vista vs Novell Desktop. If I chose the latter, can you help me get the refund on the Windows OS?
3. If I stay with 2K or XP, what kinds of things will I not be able to do in the next few years?

Eh sorry guys. I was a bit in an edgy mood this morning. It's still DOS at the center of it, because NT was just changing DOS's importance in the OS. Without having a bit of DOS in the kernel, you couldn't even run stuff in "Compatibility mode".

I really hate that they're saying that, for the simple reason that it's a lie; Vista isn't fast. If they say it's secure, I guess it is compared to an unpatched copy of Windows98. Or to XP even.

Buying from a retailer who offers Linux preinstalled does very little to the average person. Honestly, until a big enough player comes to Canada with linux or anything other than windows or mac os, I'm sticking with Dell or HP, and asking for a refund for Windows.

@Pixellany: Don't worry, I won't implode/asplode/explode. I recently took out my frustration on Colonel Santiago in a good game of alpha centauri : )

For the questions, do you mean someone coming into the store and asking the sale person questions? If so:

4. Will I need to upgrade my hardware? If so, how much will it cost me?

And that's about it o.o I've hit a thinking block.

Secure... Well that depends on what you mean about secure. I am sure Microsoft payed more attention on securing DRM in Vista, than more essential system security. The only secure thing on Vista is the DRM. Its ok for other to break into vista, but we can't have anybody messing with protected media, heavens no!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...Windows_NT_4.0
MS-DOS product progression
* MS-DOS and PC-DOS
* Windows 1.0
* Windows 2.0
* Windows 2.1 (aka Windows/286 and Windows/386)
* Windows 3.0, Windows 3.1, Windows 3.11 (and Windows for Workgroups)
* Windows 95 (Windows 4.0)
* Windows 98 (Windows 4.1), Windows 98 Second Edition
* Windows Millennium Edition (Windows 4.9)

Current NT line product progression
* Windows NT 3.1, 3.5, 3.51
* Windows NT 4.0
* Windows 2000 (Windows NT 5.0)
* Windows XP (Windows NT 5.1)
* Windows Server 2003 (Windows NT 5.2)
* Windows XP x64 (Windows NT 5.2)
* Windows Vista (Windows NT 6.0)

And the Windows VMS story.

@Jeebizz: Including a firewall and anti-virus, though not too good ones, is still a step forward.

@2damncommon: There's still some DOS in 5.1+ (XP) be it cmd.exe, or COMMAND.COM. Otherwise no app that was made for 9x would work with XP and Vista, which isn't the case, because XP can emulate 9x.

EDIT: Welp, it's official, Dell has moved to Vista. I'm buying from a local computer store a friend reccomended.

Or just build your own... why pay a premium for something you can easily do yourself, plus you avoid the Microsoft tax completely

Jorophose:
There is a PC supplier that will distribute Linux on a system: Dell. Wierd, I know...I only found out about it a few weeks ago. I believe they provide Fedora. Definitely something that blew my socks off. It takes a bit of digging around on the ol' internet, but you'll find it.

Basically I think Vista is a waste of time. My biggest beef, is finding a nice new laptop that doesn't come with Windows pre-loaded (even refurbished laptops that I've found come pre-loaded). I've haggled with the sales reps at Future Shop and Best Buy, and they act almost vegetatively if I ask for a computer with nothing pre-loaded.

[Pardon me for the following sentences]

:O

Do they distribute them in Canada?!?!?! Zomg where can I get one??! That would be totally killer!! I know they sell n-series and others with FreeDOS, but I thought they were only for US customers?

[/]

@JW: I've been looking into building it myself, too. But it depends who can do it for less.

If you are interested in buying Vista then vote.

Dell certainly ship servers with linux (RH, Suse), but do they do desktops?

Actually, I believe it's worse than that. The ads I've seen say the minimum system requirement is 1GB of RAM (yes, that's right, one ****ing Gigabyte).

I am actually going to get Vista (do I hear a shocked intake of breath?). Not sure that i'm going to use it much, but I got a free upgrade coupon, so I get it for the postage. Thought I might as well give it a go. That is, if they'll give it to me. They want to see the receipt from my computer's manufacturer, so either I'll just have to send the Dabs receipt for the OEM copy I bought, or send them the receipt from Hogg Computers Ltd., which I haven't got around to typing up yet (ahem).

Rob

You need 1GB+128MB video RAM to be able to get the thing started and run an app or two (all integrated with Windows, in true MS fashion, of course), then you can strip it down to 256MB for the OS.

I wouldn't bother much with Vista. It's like the old iLamps. From afar they look odd, intriguing. But start using it and that starts to evaporate away.