Venting
 

Quote from: dedndave on November 30, 2014, 11:26:05 PM

frankly, i get a little tired of hearing how the american natives were conquered
you all act like it's the first time in history land was taken by force

they had bows and arrows - we had guns - game over

to be honest, they get a much better deal from us than any other conquered peoples
they get a LOT of very valuable land - breaks on several laws - and a monthly check for sitting on their ass


Good perspective, Mr. Dave. :-)

I too get tired of the "Let's pick on America" crap.

It's somewhat funny that most of the whiners live in countries who would be speaking German, Japanese,etc if the Americans had not come to their aid in WW2.

When a country is being victimized, who is first on the list to help ?

But they will not bring that up.

When America is hit by storms, etc, which other countries have sent help ?

The list is very short.

Outta here,

:rolleye:

Thank you for establishing how I should evaluate your contributions in the future.

If the "whiners in countries that would be speaking German if we didn't help them out" was an oh-so-original dig at the French, btw, then let me remind you that they backed your revolution, and that without their help you would not even have a country today.

One can be a good person today while recognizing the sins of one's forebears.

Really, one can (and you have no idea what my forebears did, but some of them did hideous things and, if there is a hell, they burn in it).

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...art169431.html

I will stop now, before I say something I shall regret.

Are you really sure you want to do this? I mean really!

I had a huge reply typed up but because you've gone you wont see it, suffice to say the US isn't the great world citizen some of you like to think it is.

They probably backed it thinking they could take it over again after the British had their collectives butts kicked out.

I must truly be a nerd because I just can't understand any nationalism at all, pro or con. It always reminds me of

"Oh yeah? Well my Dad can beat up your Dad" and "Ford R0X, Chevy sux".... infantile, and an utter waste of time.

You are right.

You are wise in listening more and speaking less.

I can understand it to a certain extent but I think that any nation, or person of any nation, who is unwilling to take criticism or inflates the nations importance regardless of historical facts is doing themselves, and the rest of the world, an injustice.

We obviously don't disagree as I did say both Pro and Con. I'll go a step further. There is extremely little value in applauding right action but considerable value to all the people of that nation, not to mention a civic duty, to criticize perceived wrong action. One cannot fix a problem until one recognizes that one exists.

All individuals commit actions during their short lifetimes of which they are proud, and a few of which they are (or should be) ashamed. How can it possibly be that any group of individuals lasting many lifetimes can be utterly free from shameful actions? That's reality.

It is somewhat normal to "root for your own team" and crowing about one's importance commonly has only one bad side effect - it can be taken with jealousy as antagonism by others but this is purely emotional, only has any validity in a real competition, and should only be truly relevant if one is actually active on the team, not riding the bench or in the stands. Denigrating others is more damaging. Denying one has any shameful past is damaging in the extreme.

One of the best effects of the internet is the erosion of national and cultural borders. Hopefully over time this can reduce conflict, despite some reaction against it.

It often baffles me why people wish to hang on to such differences. I know on your continental island the Official Doctrine of Aborigines is that they sprung from the ground right there in Australia. They wish to continue to believe this despite DNA evidence that proves their ancestors came from Africa just like everyone else. In fact their most recent offshore ancestors were so brave and inquisitive that they crossed some 50-75 miles of ocean (then, when ocean levels were much lower) in dugout canoes and rafts! Yet they disown these ancestors in favor of springing from the ground. 0_0

It all just makes so little sense to me.

Fixit7, while you obviously shouldn't be acting like this at any time, it is especially inappropriate to be doing it just days after announcing that you don't want to be criticized.

You didn't start this thread in response to anything specific on LQ. If it's a response to something you saw on another forum, then engage it there. If you're reacting to what you see as a more general trend and you just want to vent here (and you're not looking for responses), then you have a blog for personal thoughts like this.

before one gos off on the past behavior of others

think about this

do to "fracking"( and other things) we will run out of fresh water BEFORE "gas"

we are ALREADY 200% over the sustainable population level

so

ask your self

WHAT you will do to remove 1/2 of the worlds population

and just HOW BAD will "people" get when there is NO FOOD or drinking water

if you look to the past
that will be nice in comparison to what weapons are available NOW

I basically agree with everything you said until this

The official line is there is no official line. DNA studies don't indicate anything. What you seem to be referring to is the "Dreaming" which is Aboriginal legend. There are Dreaming stories that most certainly indicate coming from other lands to Australia. Just like Indigenous North Americans have their legends and continue to use them so do Indigenous Australians. It is not up to the government, and I don't personally know of it anyway, to have an official line to where the Aboriginal peoples come from and how long they have been here.

@ k3lto1 - It seems I am guilty as charged of ignorance and generalization. Thanks for setting me right.

as one posters sig on a another forums says:

"You cannot undo the past but you can learn from it"

I doubt you are ignorant but at times we all generalise. You haven't done anything that deserves a rap over the knuckles.

So, the fact that someone allegedly has superior weapons give them the right to kill other people and take their land. Justice and moral don't count at all. Brilliant.

The quote you posted -- which you clearly endorse -- justifies victimizing another country or people and a few lines below you talk about the US helping countries countries that are being victimized, so you're contradicting yourself.

Do you have the list? I'd like to have a look at it.

Good.

No dig at France, but two of your neighbors.

Dave posted that, not me. Re-read my post.

No, he understood you correctly.

Canada's neighbours are the US and Greenland, so what are you talking about?

Dugan already explained this, but I didn't say you posted that; I said you endorse the quote you posted. Re-read my post :rolleyes:.

Yeah, when you quote someone else to make your argument and then try to use "I didn't say that" as a get-out-of-jail-free card, it's really disingenuous.

Yes, I guess some people just don't like to assume the responsibility for what they say or imply.

I would like your take on these points
Why when the US picks on others and it seems to be ok.

Have you ever heard of the "Brisbane Line" the "Battle of Brisbane" and the "Battle of Manners Street". What about New Zealand's nuclear-free zone where the US tried to force New Zealand to accept ships that were either nuclear powered or capable of firing nuclear weapons into it sovereign territory and because NZ stood up for itself your country pulled out of the ANZUS treaty? The only reason the US forces come to Australia during WW2 was because you had your butts kicked in the Philippines, Macarthur wanted to let teh Japanese have everything north of Brisbane and Perth if they made landfall. The idea of capitulation is not helpful at all when its not your country you are giving up to the enemy.

What exactly did you do for Rwanda when the crap was hitting the fan? What exactly did you do for the people who died during the first 2 years of WW2? What about Tibet what have you done for it and what are you doing for it since China annexed it? What exactly are you doing for the Tatars in Crimea (now annexed by Russia) who are being victimised simply because they are Tatar and not ethnic Russians? What did the US do for East Timor in 1975 when Indonesia invaded? What did the US do for Vietnam when Ho Chi Min asked for help?

I did and now I am waiting for your reply.

Australian and New Zealand firefighters go to places like California every year and help the local fire fighters with the firestorms they get there. How many of your guys come when we had Cyclone Tracy? None. How many of your guys come when we had Cyclones in Queensland over the last 10 years? None. How many of your guys come here and help us fight our summer fire storms? 3 and they fly the cranes we hire from you, other than that the answer is none.

Lets move further with this. When the boxing day tsunami hit how come a country (the USA) with 300+ million people only sent $350 Million and very few people to help with the clean up when countries likeAustralia with 23 million people sent hundreds of people and over $300 million. Why did the US only start with $35 million and eventually give the rest under pressure from other countries.

Your memory is shorter than the list you speak of.

You are still posting even though you said "outta here".

I never meant to offend anyone and I am sorry my post did so.

Actually in that particular case, regarding people indigenous to Australia, I was and am still ignorant, but now I am a little less ignorant on this subject than I was thanks to the points you made. Ignorance is not the antithesis of intelligence. Not being able to recognize or admit ignorance tends to lock one in that state. I choose to continue to grow. It's a never ending process but one I think well worth the investment.

Cheers and greetz from the other side of the planet. :)

Hopefully and historically this forum is a friendly place so don't take the comments as an effort to offend or denigrate you personally. Most simply wish to display the error of such "thinking" so that all can see, not just Americans, that most countries are populated by good and helpful people that prefer to "do the right thing", but individually and as a Nation we sometimes fall short in that. When we do that, people will be offended whether we explicitly "meant to offend" or not. For individuals it is rather important to not fall into the trap of "My country, right or wrong". It is equally important to recognize that that the view is different from a distance, and it is far too easy to dump on one's neighbors by not fully understanding their situation and what you would choose to do if you were "in their shoes".

I'm actually glad you started this thread because until such legacy thinking and prejudice is out in the open, it can not be improved and get's stuck in the same old knee jerk reactions.