LinuxQuestions.org
Welcome to the most active Linux Forum on the web.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Search this Thread
Old 04-23-2011, 12:03 AM   #16
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Hanover, Germany
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 14,865
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
Why is that funny? I have three unix servers for serious business and I am planning on replacing Windows on my laptop with unix as soon as I have the time. I don't see why all this is funny. It's funny that I paid good money for a new Windows 7 laptop to give Microsoft another chance to impress me and was disappointed yet again?
You sound like you don't have your opinion since yesterday, so I assumed that you already knew that "Windows sucks". Why should it be different with Windows 7?

Quote:
You think it's funny when others are inconvenienced or ripped-off? Are you suggesting that I move to Linux 100% and THEN I will be allowed to complain??? When someone's car breaks down and they have to get it repaired, do you laugh at them if they complain?
What I find funny is complaining with lack of information. Why did you buy Windows in the first place? Why not buy a laptop without OS and try Windows 7 with the free trial version?
You actually did not get ripped of, you donated your money because of lack of information.
Or in your car analogy: If you buy a new car, wouldn't you read the break-down statistics before buying? Wouldn't you make a test-drive to see if you really like your new car?
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:05 AM   #17
Telengard
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Distribution: Kubuntu 8.04
Posts: 579
Blog Entries: 8

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 147Reputation: 147
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
I think your attempt to characterize the reality of Windows shortfalls as just due to some irrational meme is disingenuous in the least. You're feigning interesting like a concerned sociologist; pretty funny.
You seem to have missed the point. I am not attempting to characterize anything about Windows. I am not feigning my interest. The point of this thread is not to discuss Windows at all.

I am interested in the origin of the meme. I want to know when it started, who said it first and why. I want to know how it spread and in what circles. I want to know if my college professor was just full of crap. I can't learn anything if this thread becomes polluted with bias.

Please no more posts like this
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:08 AM   #18
Coresay
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Apr 2011
Distribution: CentOS
Posts: 8

Rep: Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
None of both.



Sorry I have to say that, but this statement clearly shows that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. It is simply impossible to develop an OS for a platform that diverse like the PC platform (in hardware terms) with that complexity (in hard- and software) with zero bugs. Any developer that knows what he is doing will confirm that.
You may be sorry, but you are also dead wrong my friend. Fixing bugs is just a matter of resources. Are you telling me that Microsoft doesn't have the capital to higher enough programmers to fix all their bugs? Especially the ones that have been around for 10-15 years? I'm afraid you don't know what you are talking about. Microsoft netted over 18 BILLION in PROFIT last year. You don't think that will hire enough programmers if not the best architects money can buy and give us A-1 quality software? 18 billion / 100K = 180,000 developers. Hehe, man, I don't know what to say if you can't see there is room for massive improvement.

BTW, I wanted to comment on the "don't bash windows" comment by someone. Guess what? Microsoft and Windows aren't people. They will not get their feelings hurt. It's OK to bash inanimate abstract objects... I promise ;o)
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:10 AM   #19
Telengard
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Distribution: Kubuntu 8.04
Posts: 579
Blog Entries: 8

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 147Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
Why is that funny? I have three unix servers for serious business and I am planning on replacing Windows on my laptop with unix as soon as I have the time. I don't see why all this is funny. It's funny that I paid good money for a new Windows 7 laptop to give Microsoft another chance to impress me and was disappointed yet again? You think it's funny when others are inconvenienced or ripped-off? Are you suggesting that I move to Linux 100% and THEN I will be allowed to complain??? When someone's car breaks down and they have to get it repaired, do you laugh at them if they complain?
Please no more posts like this. Please don't drag the thread off topic. You are welcome to start your own thread about an OS for nuclear power plants, or whatever you like.

Thanks for participating.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:19 AM   #20
Coresay
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Apr 2011
Distribution: CentOS
Posts: 8

Rep: Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
You sound like you don't have your opinion since yesterday, so I assumed that you already knew that "Windows sucks". Why should it be different with Windows 7?

What I find funny is complaining with lack of information. Why did you buy Windows in the first place? Why not buy a laptop without OS and try Windows 7 with the free trial version?
You actually did not get ripped of, you donated your money because of lack of information.
Or in your car analogy: If you buy a new car, wouldn't you read the break-down statistics before buying? Wouldn't you make a test-drive to see if you really like your new car?

Well, since you want to pick my decision making process apart, the reason why I bought Windows 7 is because I had gotten used to Widnows 7 and assumed that the Windodws OS had improved over time. So, I guess I gave Windows 7 the benefit of the doubt. So, that was my mistake. Are you happy now? Are you rolling on the floor laughing at my bad decision? Why must you make this a personal attack instead of remaining on the issue that is the lack of quality of the Windows OS? Focusing on my mistake is not the point of this thread. Instead of addressing my points, you are bashing me. Please mind the forum rules.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:23 AM   #21
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Hanover, Germany
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 14,865
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
You may be sorry, but you are also dead wrong my friend. Fixing bugs is just a matter of resources. Are you telling me that Microsoft doesn't have the capital to higher enough programmers to fix all their bugs? Especially the ones that have been around for 10-15 years? I'm afraid you don't know what you are talking about. Microsoft netted over 18 BILLION in PROFIT last year. You don't think that will hire enough programmers if not the best architects money can buy and give us A-1 quality software? 18 billion / 100K = 180,000 developers. Hehe, man, I don't know what to say if you can't see there is room for massive improvement.
Yeah, and one crappy driver will bring down the whole OS. Besides that, according to Wikipedia the Windows Server 2003 contains approximately 50 million lines of code, that is a gigantic mass. And fixing bugs will some times bring up new bugs in the code. In Windows this is just the basic operation system. Debian 5.0, with all of its 29.000 packages, brings up 324 million lines of code, so the basic operation system should be a good amount smaller than the Windows basic operating system. No software in this magnitude and complexity can be absolutely flawless. And you really think, developing the next version of an OS is just bringing down the bugs? No research? No ideas that get abandoned? No design team? Every change in the new version is a potential bug, and not all bugs can be tracked down with simple manpower.

Quote:
BTW, I wanted to comment on the "don't bash windows" comment by someone. Guess what? Microsoft and Windows aren't people. They will not get their feelings hurt. It's OK to bash inanimate abstract objects... I promise ;o)
You are right, bashing Microsoft will not hurt Microsoft. There are just two things why I think bashing Microsoft is somewhat harmful:
1. The OP wanted a clean discussion about his topic.
2. The bashers look to everyone else to zealots and mindless fanboys.

Now let's get back on topic.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:24 AM   #22
Coresay
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Apr 2011
Distribution: CentOS
Posts: 8

Rep: Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telengard View Post
Please no more posts like this. Please don't drag the thread off topic. You are welcome to start your own thread about an OS for nuclear power plants, or whatever you like.

Thanks for participating.
Hey Telengard. You are out of line. If someone is going to attack me personally instead of my arguments, then I will respond to defend myself. You need to make your comment to Tobi. Leave the moderating to the moderators.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:30 AM   #23
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Hanover, Germany
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 14,865
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798Reputation: 3798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
Why must you make this a personal attack instead of remaining on the issue that is the lack of quality of the Windows OS? Focusing on my mistake is not the point of this thread. Instead of addressing my points, you are bashing me. Please mind the forum rules.
If you think that I a personally attacking you feel free to report the specific post to a moderator.

But anyways, you are contradicting yourself:
Quote:
I paid good money for a new Windows 7 laptop to give Microsoft another chance to impress me
Quote:
the reason why I bought Windows 7 is because I had gotten used to Widnows 7
In my opinion it is rather pointless to discuss with you any further topic. Welcome to my ignore list.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:35 AM   #24
Telengard
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2007
Location: USA
Distribution: Kubuntu 8.04
Posts: 579
Blog Entries: 8

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 147Reputation: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
1. The OP wanted a clean discussion about his topic.
2. The bashers look to everyone else to zealots and mindless fanboys.

Now let's get back on topic.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coresay View Post
Hey Telengard. You are out of line. If someone is going to attack me personally instead of my arguments, then I will respond to defend myself. You need to make your comment to Tobi.
You are free to defend yourself against Tobi by PM or in your own thread. Please don't bring the flame war here.

Quote:
Leave the moderating to the moderators.
Right.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:36 AM   #25
Coresay
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Apr 2011
Distribution: CentOS
Posts: 8

Rep: Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
And you really think, developing the next version of an OS is just bringing down the bugs? No research? No ideas that get abandoned? No design team? Every change in the new version is a potential bug, and not all bugs can be tracked down with simple manpower.
Nooooo, I never said all of that! Yes, work on design, do more research! Of course, all of the above! There is so much room for improvement! I CAN be done! Stop giving them excuses! $18,000,000,000 <- look at all of those zeros! I just don't get the feeling Microsoft is even trying to improve. Why can't they take us to a whole new level of OS? A revolution! They have to power and the resources. Think positive man!

Quote:
Now let's get back on topic.
Ok, I don't think the opinion that Unix is a better OS is due to a meme. And, a meme by definition is irrational, so that is what the OP is implying. So, that's why I think his premise is unfair to begin with.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:46 AM   #26
Coresay
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Apr 2011
Distribution: CentOS
Posts: 8

Rep: Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telengard View Post
Exactly.
You are free to defend yourself against Tobi by PM or in your own thread. Please don't bring the flame war here.
Right.
Telengard, I'm afraid you set yourself up for this. You characterized the opinion of those who prefer Unix over Windows as suffering from a meme. A meme is completely irrational. Do you think readers aren't going to know what you were clearly implying??? You decided to do your own attack under the guise of being intellectual. Nice try. Sorry, but you've been called on it. I hold my views based on experience, not because I'm suffering from a mind virus (which is what a meme is in case you didn't know.)

"A meme is an idea that behaves like a virus--that moves through a population, taking hold in each person it infects."
 
Old 04-23-2011, 04:21 AM   #27
Latios
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2010
Distribution: Arch
Posts: 115

Rep: Reputation: 21
I have use Windows 98 up to 2005. Then jumped straight to the deep water - Gentoo Linux

My experience is

In Windows :

I remember working with Windows 98, Netscape, MS office, NO antivirus or firewall, and i cant say i was dissatsfied with it. I left it just because i found out about Linux and decided to try, then didnt want to go back

I am the tech support for several Windows boxes : family, friends, others (paid), even helped the school tech guy several times

I do eventual format / install / help me / data recovery, and when i woked with the tech i also configured some networking (basic stuff)

With that said I never installed or dealt (other than surfed the internet) with Vista or 7

In Linux :

I use it every day since 2005 on desktop (Gentoo 2005-2007 Arch 2007-now)

Now on several desktops, been thru great times (ehen KDE 4 came out), bad times (when my computer woul'dnt support KDE 4 or when glibc guys decided to drop support for my router), and had experience with Linux on desktop



I would not call Windows a toy, but there is stuff i just love about linux which is not there in Windows :

Linux gives you powerful tools : package manager, powerful CLI tools, STDOUT error messages. . . . even stuff that you can install in Windows but it just makes you love Linux (or KDE) when it is allready there : text editor with highlighting, hex editor, and so on. When I run into a problem on Linux i am capable of solving it with the tools that came with the system. When I run into a problem on Windows and cant find a solution within 5 min google i just format it, cause i have no tools or clue what the problem is or how to solve it

Linux is modular : want different desktop ? get one or all together. want super duper kernel ? compile one. X makes troubles ? download earlier version and install it

Linux is mobile : install to your hard drive - move it to another computer - copy the installed OS to a usb flash - use this flash as live medium - install it on another computer - use it to recover data on a failed Windows computer - get online on a different computer than it was ever before andupdate it - copy the contents to a blank computer to get working desktop in 5 minutes - continue your pokemon journey

Linux won't stop you : it won't test if it's pirated then cease working in the least convenient moment, it won't have DRM built in, it is (legally) ok to do all the "mobile" stuff with it

And besides, Linux IS a "hacker operating system" and IS a "open source cult" thing. You see the difference in Linux forums vs Windows forums, and i am speaking about the general mass here and not about the fanboys. Sometimes the actual software developer is writing in the same forum as you

When you use Linux and the above attributes of Linux become the standard you expect from a computer, it is tempting to call a "toy" a system that does not satisfy them
 
Old 04-23-2011, 05:12 AM   #28
Joe of Loath
Member
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Bristol, UK
Distribution: Ubuntu, Debian, Arch.
Posts: 152

Rep: Reputation: 28
When my dad was an HPUX admin in the late 80's, it was a commonly held belief that Windows was written in crayon.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 05:32 AM   #29
baldy3105
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Distribution: Mint (Desktop), Debian (Server)
Posts: 875

Rep: Reputation: 179Reputation: 179
I say this to people mainly because I only keep Windows for playing games on - everything else I can do with Linux. And even there Linux is catching up. There are a few major titles that I enjoy playing that the producers see fit to only release under windows so I'm stuck with that annoying Windows partition.

So for me Windows is literally just a glorified games platform now.
 
Old 04-23-2011, 05:33 AM   #30
baldy3105
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2003
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Distribution: Mint (Desktop), Debian (Server)
Posts: 875

Rep: Reputation: 179Reputation: 179
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe of Loath View Post
When my dad was an HPUX admin in the late 80's, it was a commonly held belief that Windows was written in crayon.
Nice one! Whole room just LOL'd
 
  


Closed Thread

Tags
unix, windows


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does mounting HDD with "flush" & "sync" have any real use? Mr. Alex Linux - Hardware 1 02-03-2011 03:46 AM
What's the real difference between "userdel" and "deluser"? Mr. Alex Linux - Newbie 4 08-07-2010 10:28 AM
net working eth0 eth1 wlan0 "no connection" "no LAN" "no wi-fi" Cayitano Linux - Newbie 5 12-09-2007 07:11 PM
Standard commands give "-bash: open: command not found" even in "su -" and "su root" mibo12 Linux - General 4 11-11-2007 10:18 PM
LXer: Displaying "MyComputer", "Trash", "Network Servers" Icons On A GNOME Desktop LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 04-02-2007 08:31 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:56 AM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration