To those who don't mind DRM and are addicted to the entertainment industry
 

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/05/...eploy-rootkits

This is your future.

After reading a fair bit of this 'report' is seems to be a neat combo of 'pie in the sky' theories on how much IP 'theft' costs, some crazy ideas on how to reduce IP theft, a lot of 'f-you china'. Plus some extras for those with some strong political beliefs (eg, return to protectionism, anti-UN sentiment).

The BBC reports that this Commission is a "non-partisan private commission" and the report is published by
a "National Bureau of Asian Research" on behalf of the Commission. According to Wikipedia, this National Bureau
is actually a nonprofit whose mission is to strengthen Asia-Pacific policy. This might explain the 'f-you china'
aspects of the report and maybe also the protectionist and anti-UN sentiment. What is more curious is that the
commission does not seem to have been formed by Congress nor the current Administration but members comprise
Jon M. Huntsman, Jr. (former Ambassador to China, Governor of the state of Utah and republican primary hopeful)
Michael K. Young (former Deputy Under Secretary of State) and Slade Gorton (former U.S. Senator).

What I consider "theft" is giving a drunk-driving actress $14 Million Dollars to play Cat Woman, or $1 million dollars to show us her "14 year-old boy boobies" in Swordfish. Now that's theft.

I don't know why the MPAA, RIAA, makers of ebooks etc. haven't thought of this yet.
Turn over DRM to the IRS. They will simply deny you the right to use your computer or iplayer or tablet if they don't like you. Their you are illegally using something until you prove differently mentality should stop a lot of legally purchased MPAA product and DRM epubs from being used.. Reference Sony's root kits on optical media example of a few years ago. Then they can seize your puter, ipads, DVD's if you refuse to comply.
They will demand that you tell them about your toilet habits and your prayers before they will let you use a DVD again. You'll also have to report your DVD usage on form 2145.DVD-12 appended to your 1040 form, and you'll have to pay a DVD user fee and .epub fee quarterly.
And it can be all covered up for years, because no one there will have knowledge of it.

Of course this is the future and it's all because you bought a DVD.

I don't believe in stealing anything so I don't have to worry.

Of course nobody has ever been expensively inconvenienced even if they're not breaking licence agreements:
http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/64465.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BM...ootkit_scandal
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/...-some-kindles/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05...sure_drm_woes/

It is our future though unless H_TeXMeX_H has never bought or rented a film, gone to the movies or watched television that is paid for and/or has adverts.

This is just SO dumb ,stupid, idiotic, and moronic that congress is BOUND TO MAKE THAT A LAW

So bad in so many ways that it has a 100% chance of becoming law

and if it dose , then ....

It is time to storm the castle with torches and pitchforks and remove the " EVIL " lord from the castle and burn them at the stake .

--- or would being impaled be to good for them ?

Yes, you sure can trust these companies with the nearly unlimited power you give them. They will use it to screw you over no matter if you did anything or not. They say suspected of being a pirate, and there are no details on how this is determined. There is no way in hell I would even install malware like this on my system.

As for me buying and renting, of course I have, but things are getting out of hand now, and I will boycott them from now (or a while ago) on. This is not unlike a digital inquisition.

If you don't have, or have never had, things on your computer that you shouldn't have then you have nothing to worry about. Seriously if they took control of peoples PCs there would be an outcry of massive proportions. If there wasn't then the people involved are sheep ready to be led to a slaughter.

Do you still know the whereabouts of the original discs for every piece of music in your collection?
If you've owned and used a Windows PC do you have receipts for every piece of software on it?
Can you prove that every piece of media on your PC is being used as per the license agreements and produce those license agreements in a court of law?
Businesses have been fined thousands because they can't find the original install disc of a piece of software on an old PC stuck in the corner. If other media goes that way it's not a matter of having had anything you shouldn't have it's a matter of having 100% proof you have a license for everything you use.

No matter what I answer here someone will call BS.

Anyway this is about DRM not music CDs I purchased back in 1987 when I got my first CD player. Not only that as far as I am aware none of the big labels have DRM on CDs anymore anway because the cost outweighed the benefit and none of the small labels can afford it either.

As for my personal PCs I have none with Windows on them atm but I do have the original install discs from Acer that come with my old laptop and I still have the letter from my Macromedia with my name, address, and key on it for my copy of their product which I bought through my employer which is a government department. Needless to say it isn't installed on anything now anyway because web development technology has come along way since 2002 when I bought it.

Like I said, if you haven't got anything you shouldn't have you have nothing to worry about.

I'm sorry but that just does not follow.
You may be OK (I've no reason to doubt your word) but how does that mean that every innocent person is OK?
If the content-provider for the media somebody downloaded goes bust do you think they should have their computer shut down until they can provide receipts to the RIAA/MPAA? Do you think somebody should have their PC locked if they receive a file through email or a malicious website link? How about somebody who downloaded mp3s of their favourite artist who has now changed record label? How about the person torrenting Slackware that finds out it's not Slackware because their cable box gets hacked shut by the RIAA/MPAA and is held to ransom until they can prove they wanted Slackware? How about the person who inserted the Sony CD whose PC then locked up -- are they criminals?

In the US I know that you are innocent until proven guilty, or at least that's how it was or is supposed to be. Nobody can investigate or accuse you without some reasonable suspicion, or better yet proof.

This isn't about me or others being guilty and worrying because we will be caught. I guarantee you that I will never be caught even if I were guilty. This is about the entertainment industry mounting an offensive against all of its customers. What gives them the right to install anything on my computer without my permission, much less malware ! It is beyond imagination what they want, it is the very essence of madness and oppression.

This attitude that the media and politicians are putting out "If you are an honest man (nothing to hide), you have nothing to fear or worry." is pure BS. They want to monitor your every activity and even if they suspect you of anything, you are automatically guilty ... like the strikes rules they put out on piracy. You just have to be suspected not proven. I ask what these politicians have to hide ... I'll bet they have a whole lot to hide ... much more than I do. The only difference is that they have the power.

I don't see this leading anywhere, so I'm out of here.

I agree with you on this. I just found the premise of your original post that it affects only those in the thrall of big media and, therefore, putting yourself above them was a little patronising.
We are all affected by this though, of course, if we care we should change our buying habits accordingly or admit to complicity.

Comon guys, read the report, or at least skim it.

It is NOT about DRM, or MP3s, ripped DVDs etc.. 'Media' is mentioned once, and its in now the press, not musc/video. 'Music' is mentioned 4 times, 1 mention in 'types of IP theft' and 3 beating on China. Sure, it could be connected to them, but the main thrust of this report is industrial 'IP'.

Get real.

For this idea to work, they will need to have a program on your system that analyses every file on your computer. Not just audio/video files, but all sorts of text as well. The results will have to be sent online for processing (while it would be possible to process the results locally, it would be less 'trustable'). So even if you are as pure as the driven snow, dont get caught with a false positive or have some linux/BSD package flagged as 'IP theft', you will still be paying for it, in bandwidth, disc access and CPU use.

Thats besides the really nasty stuff that is not reccomended 'at this time' but are still in the report, like 'Reccomend that congress and the administration authorise agressive cyber actions agains IP theives'. If people think they they will be safe and unaffected by oopen, unlimited cyberwar (even if they are not targeted) they havent been thinking that hard.

There would be a counter argument that you're already made- 'If you don't have, or have never had, things on your computer that you shouldn't have then you have nothing to worry about'.

Its a joke though, for this sort of idea to work they would need the cooperation of the OS makers. Microsoft and Apple might agree, or have no choice about the matter...but the rest of the world? Nope. No-one with half a brain in (non-US) government, science or industry would let a 'index *.* with the power to shut down everything' program onto the system.

If Microsoft and Apple decide to insert in their OSes that kind of feature, that will affect probably 99 % of Desktop
machines. Running any of the BSDs or Linux will probably mark you as a suspect, and there will soon be demands
that web sites or companies that distribute Linux or BSD either close or adopt the same features in the OS.
There may also be a move to insert such features deeper in the computer hardware (by some extension of UEFI for instance). The majority of users will not care, as this will have been sold to them as a technical measure to protect
them from hackers.

As to the non-US governments, they too are sensitive to lobbying by music, movie and software industry.
What the future could look like is:
(1) tightly controlled personal computers/mobile devices for users of Web/multimedia content
(2) Mainframes in governement, science and industry with filtered network access

Maybe bricking a computer that contains supposedly pirated content is too extreme, but one could imagine
a registration process of computer CPUs (when the computer is bought or when its CPU is replaced)
combined with a scan of all files and a comparison of digital signatures of the files with those of in an online
database. In case of a match, the computer would use the serial number of the CPU to identify its owner and
check that the owner has purchased a license to use the file.

That does not look like a too pleasant future, and we may well end up missing our vinyl records, printed books and
magazines, and 8 bit 64K RAM microcomputers from 30 years ago.

How Hard is it to Get Caught Pirating?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcmKd18M8B0

I don't know about that specific measure but I've met a few people who have been sent threatening letters by various legal firms due to file sharing.
A couple of them only got "cease and desist" letters but I know of two or three who paid -- one whom took legal advice and settled out of court.
So, are you feeling lucky?

Of course, I don't believe everything in the video, that is his own opinion and research.

You are making a mountain out of a mole hill with hypothetical situations that are, to put it simply, born of hysteria.

Maybe try reading the title of the thread you are responding in, it specifically mentions DRM.

How about the real ones instead then:
Is it OK that Sony rootkitted people's PCs, creating a vulnerability later used by malware?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_rootkit
Is it OK that people who have done nothing wrong should have their internet access suspended?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-10444879-261.html
Yeah, I'm hysterical, these things never cause any problems to people who've done nothing wrong. The above never happened did they? They can't have since, as you said, these things should only worry the guilty.

Maybe I am too trusting.

I will agree that the government has seemed to go against the honest person in my lifetime. Simple, subtle things to out right unbelievable actions by the elected officials has me wondering.

Simple things like getting banned by google was shown to LQ last year.

Sure, I have always believed that protecting rights of creators is a good thing. It was meant to develop ideas and creations in turn at some point the gain was to be transferred to public domain.

I can see things like stop light cameras used to "make money", seen IRS officials claim they did no wrong and then pleaded the Fifth Amendment. I've seen cops taking payoffs.

America ought to wake up to some of this.

I already miss them.

This is more than about DRM. The government is in paranoia and they don't trust anybody.

Yes you are hysterical and until you start settling down nothing anyone says will do anything for you.

Its not my fault that H_TeXMeX_H put DRM in the title, even though the link or original article is not about DRM at all. I'm a little disgused that other users here have done little research on or reading of the original document, and are discussing this as though its RIAA/MPAA produced the report.....

IMO 273 is making a vaild point. There is no need for inflammatory comments that add nothing to the discussion.

RIAA/MPAA arent behind this. If you read the report, it actually gives numbers that show that music and video is not what this is directed at.

A 2007 study estimates that the US ecomony loses 12.5 billion from sound piracy.
Another 2007 study estimates that the US ecomony loses 20.5 billion from movie piracy (page 52 if anyone cares)

The report says that loses from IP theft are 'likely to be over 300 billion' (page 2). So music and movies make up about 10% of the total.

Nope, cant be done with CPU ID numbers (various reasons) and cant be done with filehashes/signatures (this report is taking a very braod view on 'IP' and it includes things like 'proprietary processes' in manufacturing)

The US could try going so far as to make linux 'illegal' (or at least making 'OSes without the super-spyware installed illegal').

There have already been serious accusations that echelon has been used for industrial spying (eg airbus). This system has far more scpoe for abuse....'what, some clever Indian has figured out how to make an anticancer drug that is very cheap and easy to produce? Hmm, lets strech this point with the manufacturing process, call it 'IP theft', lock the computers there, by the time they get the computers unlocked a US company will have a US patent on this new tech'.

That might be considered ridiculous, but it could happen, and I for one wouldnt trust the US inteligence agencies at all.

Maybe in the US, possibly in soem other countries, (and only the 'big money' mass media would try that, there are too many smart bloggers around).

China in patricular will never go for these measures, and if it was tried, there would be a lot of Chinese media screaming about the 'american imperialistic malware'. Those reports would spead to other countries as well.

It's not my fault 2 other people mentioned DRM and/or music before I made any suggestion about it.
IMO 273 has been off track with this discussion from the get go. He has posted about DVDs, Music, Sony etc, when this report, as you mention, actually has very little to do with it. I made no inflammatory comment what-so-ever, I did however point out that he has made a mountain out of a molehill and using his posts and your posts putting them together anyone who cares to look should be able to see that.

You, and 273, can't have it both ways, it can't be an either or situation. Music and DRM can't be part of the topic from the begining and when someone says "if you haven't got anything on your PC that you shouldn't have then you have nothig to worry about" without mentioning either music of DRM in that post get grilled for that statement with the person doing the grilling bringing up music and DRM being in the thread title. Then we have the links, off topic by what you are saying, being thrown in. Do the rest of us ignore that? or do we reply to it? You have gone to great lengths here to tell everyone it has nothing to do with DRM and music etc even telling us percentages that are in the article. If it is in the article it is up for discussion and I'm not very impressed that you are trying to force everyone else into your line of discussion.

You suggested that people with nothing they should not have have nothing to fear. I pointed out hypothetical situations where that may not be the case. I then, since you decided to accuse me of being hysterical for thinking, gave you examples of real world situations where innocent people were severely inconvenienced due to "copyright protectors".
In what way is backing up my claim that it is not only those who have illegal content who ought to worry hysterical?
We all know that anti-virus software has false positives and that those enforcing copyright have already damaged innocent users software (I refer you to the Sony debacle).
So, how am I being hysterical in thinking that the above could cause problems for those not guilty of any breach of copyright?

"China in patricular will never go for these measures, and if it was tried, there would be a lot of Chinese media screaming about the 'american imperialistic malware'. Those reports would spead to other countries as well"


Ummm, isn't China about control of the masses. Control of thought?
China doesn't care what their people steal as long as it doesn't involve freedom. There is no real free press in China, just puppets of the state. They already force propaganda on the public and censor news. Who would believe them if they complained anyway? No reasonable person believes their rhetoric.

China already controls every aspect of their society. It's way past time for them to be more like Europe or North America.

After I made my initial post you said
This post is nothing short of hysteria. At what stage did you think asking me if I knew where all my reciepts were was going to get you an answer where I said "oh sorry sir I don't have a clue where they are"? Did you really think I was that stupid that I would give you anything but a basic answer indicating I know where all my stuff is because I rely on it for my work so I have to keep the information and know where it is? I never mentioned music, you did so I replied to you. I never mentioned DVDs you did. You have taken my post and expanded on it in ways that it was not written, that to me is not something someone who is thinking clearly about the issue would do.

Read my reply earlier in this post. I made one simple comment and all of a sudden you decide to jump up and down asking me if I know where all my paperwork or discs are. Is this a response of someone who is willing to discuss this objectively? Somehow I don't think so. If that worries you then maybe instead of responding how you did you could consider taking a softer line.

Ah, you should have said what it was you had a problem with.
The reason I asked the simple question is because there are businesses who have faced considerable fines for not knowing where every disc and bit of paperwork is. This is relevant to the discussion because it shows that even without software being installed which can freeze computers people who don't have anything they shouldn't have suffered. In the eyes of the Federation Against Software Theft and other organisations not having every single scrap of paperwork is a criminal offence so unless you do have every scrap of paperwork you are already considered by the industry watchdog as having something you should not.
As it is I take you at your word that an audit would only cause you inconvenience but ask you whether that means those who are fined due to audits "have something they shouldn't" and deserve enormous fines.
It was your "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear" argument I was suggesting has a history of being untrue.

I don't have to explain myself. First you go off on a tangent about paperwork and discs when no one else mentioned them now you tell me I should tell you what I had a problem with. I made one simple comment, you went overboard.

In my state every school I work in is audited every year, those who have their paperwork in order have nothing to worry about, those who do not have to explain themselves.
My arguement has a history of being untrue? Interesting comment that will be kept for future use if need be.

You were off on a tangent even before I started posting in this thread. I'm not to blame because some business' can't keep their own paperwork and resources in order. Instead of asking me if I know where my stuff is maybe you should be asking them why are they not keeping a tally and knowing where all their things are. If 1 disc went missing from any school in my state there would be quite a few in trouble over it (starting from the last person to sign it out if they hadn't signed it back in, to the principal, district head, etc etc etc) and rightly so. Even 1 lost library book has to be paid for if they haven't been decomissioned from use (after that they can be, and are, given away). If a business cannot keep an inventory of items used by the business and track those items usage then they have a problem. Someone somewhere in that business has either lost something, stolen something, or not kept records properly. Why shouldn't there be sanctions? If something is lost or stolen shoudn't someone pay?

I am not suggesting here that you are not extremely diligent and in a good legal position. I am not suggesting it is your fault if others are not. What I am suggesting is that your "if you have nothing you should not you have nothing to worry about" statement is without merit because it is at worst overly simplified (the cost of software audits) and at best flat out wrong (Sony rootkit).
I "went on about it" as I was providing evidence that your throwaway statement was untrue and has a provable history of being untrue in this context.

You were going on about it even before I joined the conversation.

My apologies, I have obviously offended you in some way.
My posts have been to illustrate that it has not only been guilty people who have suffered because of copyright laws and technology already in place and, therefore, it is unlikely that only innocent people will suffer should they become more automated and allow the copyright holders more control over the equipment we own.

Offended is a strong word and not one I would use in this instance. Point is I made one post after you had started "going on about it" and you jumped on it and continued jumping on it with material that, as Cascade pointed out, had very little if anything to do with the actual content of the document. I'll leave our discussion there.

Hey, folks, please take this discussion/argument off-line and let this thread quietly die off.