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Old 05-29-2013, 07:56 PM   #31
jefro
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"China in patricular will never go for these measures, and if it was tried, there would be a lot of Chinese media screaming about the 'american imperialistic malware'. Those reports would spead to other countries as well"


Ummm, isn't China about control of the masses. Control of thought?
China doesn't care what their people steal as long as it doesn't involve freedom. There is no real free press in China, just puppets of the state. They already force propaganda on the public and censor news. Who would believe them if they complained anyway? No reasonable person believes their rhetoric.

China already controls every aspect of their society. It's way past time for them to be more like Europe or North America.
 
Old 05-30-2013, 03:35 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
You suggested that people with nothing they should not have have nothing to fear. I pointed out hypothetical situations where that may not be the case. I then, since you decided to accuse me of being hysterical for thinking, gave you examples of real world situations where innocent people were severely inconvenienced due to "copyright protectors".
In what way is backing up my claim that it is not only those who have illegal content who ought to worry hysterical?
After I made my initial post you said
Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Do you still know the whereabouts of the original discs for every piece of music in your collection?
If you've owned and used a Windows PC do you have receipts for every piece of software on it?
Can you prove that every piece of media on your PC is being used as per the license agreements and produce those license agreements in a court of law?
Businesses have been fined thousands because they can't find the original install disc of a piece of software on an old PC stuck in the corner. If other media goes that way it's not a matter of having had anything you shouldn't have it's a matter of having 100% proof you have a license for everything you use.
This post is nothing short of hysteria. At what stage did you think asking me if I knew where all my reciepts were was going to get you an answer where I said "oh sorry sir I don't have a clue where they are"? Did you really think I was that stupid that I would give you anything but a basic answer indicating I know where all my stuff is because I rely on it for my work so I have to keep the information and know where it is? I never mentioned music, you did so I replied to you. I never mentioned DVDs you did. You have taken my post and expanded on it in ways that it was not written, that to me is not something someone who is thinking clearly about the issue would do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
We all know that anti-virus software has false positives and that those enforcing copyright have already damaged innocent users software (I refer you to the Sony debacle).
So, how am I being hysterical in thinking that the above could cause problems for those not guilty of any breach of copyright?
Read my reply earlier in this post. I made one simple comment and all of a sudden you decide to jump up and down asking me if I know where all my paperwork or discs are. Is this a response of someone who is willing to discuss this objectively? Somehow I don't think so. If that worries you then maybe instead of responding how you did you could consider taking a softer line.
 
Old 05-30-2013, 06:21 AM   #33
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Read my reply earlier in this post. I made one simple comment and all of a sudden you decide to jump up and down asking me if I know where all my paperwork or discs are. Is this a response of someone who is willing to discuss this objectively? Somehow I don't think so. If that worries you then maybe instead of responding how you did you could consider taking a softer line.
Ah, you should have said what it was you had a problem with.
The reason I asked the simple question is because there are businesses who have faced considerable fines for not knowing where every disc and bit of paperwork is. This is relevant to the discussion because it shows that even without software being installed which can freeze computers people who don't have anything they shouldn't have suffered. In the eyes of the Federation Against Software Theft and other organisations not having every single scrap of paperwork is a criminal offence so unless you do have every scrap of paperwork you are already considered by the industry watchdog as having something you should not.
As it is I take you at your word that an audit would only cause you inconvenience but ask you whether that means those who are fined due to audits "have something they shouldn't" and deserve enormous fines.
It was your "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear" argument I was suggesting has a history of being untrue.
 
Old 05-30-2013, 07:25 AM   #34
k3lt01
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Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Ah, you should have said what it was you had a problem with.
I don't have to explain myself. First you go off on a tangent about paperwork and discs when no one else mentioned them now you tell me I should tell you what I had a problem with. I made one simple comment, you went overboard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
The reason I asked the simple question is because there are businesses who have faced considerable fines for not knowing where every disc and bit of paperwork is. This is relevant to the discussion because it shows that even without software being installed which can freeze computers people who don't have anything they shouldn't have suffered. In the eyes of the Federation Against Software Theft and other organisations not having every single scrap of paperwork is a criminal offence so unless you do have every scrap of paperwork you are already considered by the industry watchdog as having something you should not.
As it is I take you at your word that an audit would only cause you inconvenience but ask you whether that means those who are fined due to audits "have something they shouldn't" and deserve enormous fines.
In my state every school I work in is audited every year, those who have their paperwork in order have nothing to worry about, those who do not have to explain themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
It was your "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear" argument I was suggesting has a history of being untrue.
My arguement has a history of being untrue? Interesting comment that will be kept for future use if need be.

You were off on a tangent even before I started posting in this thread. I'm not to blame because some business' can't keep their own paperwork and resources in order. Instead of asking me if I know where my stuff is maybe you should be asking them why are they not keeping a tally and knowing where all their things are. If 1 disc went missing from any school in my state there would be quite a few in trouble over it (starting from the last person to sign it out if they hadn't signed it back in, to the principal, district head, etc etc etc) and rightly so. Even 1 lost library book has to be paid for if they haven't been decomissioned from use (after that they can be, and are, given away). If a business cannot keep an inventory of items used by the business and track those items usage then they have a problem. Someone somewhere in that business has either lost something, stolen something, or not kept records properly. Why shouldn't there be sanctions? If something is lost or stolen shoudn't someone pay?
 
Old 05-30-2013, 07:52 AM   #35
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
My arguement has a history of being untrue?
I am not suggesting here that you are not extremely diligent and in a good legal position. I am not suggesting it is your fault if others are not. What I am suggesting is that your "if you have nothing you should not you have nothing to worry about" statement is without merit because it is at worst overly simplified (the cost of software audits) and at best flat out wrong (Sony rootkit).
I "went on about it" as I was providing evidence that your throwaway statement was untrue and has a provable history of being untrue in this context.
 
Old 05-30-2013, 05:49 PM   #36
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
I "went on about it" as I was providing evidence that your throwaway statement was untrue and has a provable history of being untrue in this context.
You were going on about it even before I joined the conversation.
 
Old 05-30-2013, 06:01 PM   #37
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
You were going on about it even before I joined the conversation.
My apologies, I have obviously offended you in some way.
My posts have been to illustrate that it has not only been guilty people who have suffered because of copyright laws and technology already in place and, therefore, it is unlikely that only innocent people will suffer should they become more automated and allow the copyright holders more control over the equipment we own.
 
Old 05-30-2013, 08:14 PM   #38
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
My apologies, I have obviously offended you in some way.
Offended is a strong word and not one I would use in this instance. Point is I made one post after you had started "going on about it" and you jumped on it and continued jumping on it with material that, as Cascade pointed out, had very little if anything to do with the actual content of the document. I'll leave our discussion there.
 
Old 05-31-2013, 12:00 PM   #39
sundialsvcs
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Hey, folks, please take this discussion/argument off-line and let this thread quietly die off.
 
  


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