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Old 07-02-2013, 09:26 AM   #16
H_TeXMeX_H
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I don't really see how the profession of one's girlfriend has to do with treason and national security.
 
Old 07-02-2013, 09:28 AM   #17
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If I felt that the NSA program were "a prudent use of public money," made knowingly and by conscious choice by the people of the United States, then my attitude about the program would be entirely different. In some notable respects, NSA unquestionably does provide a unique and important public service ... the original DES algorithm, key technologies of HTTPS and VPN, and so on. There's no question in my mind that the Agency is important.

In this case, I think that the program was done, simply because they felt they could do it ... and because military contractors knew they could make a ton of money, unobserved. They didn't care about the law.

Sen. Udall, who does have access to this information, commented that this particular program had so-far produced no useful results; that the "sixty" (whee...) "plots" had been identified using other means. This does not surprise me.

One of the most serious problems with our government spending on "Defense (sic)" is that there are overwhelming $$incentives$$ to spend money, whether or not that money is being "prudently spent." Prudence has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Greed, everything. And here, also, is where "##CLASSIFIED##" works against the public interest: no one can see the waste.

"Nine wun wun" served to shut down effective public discourse about what is and isn't an appropriate level of and form of security, versus what Bruce Schneier aptly calls, "security theater." If you merely utter the suggestion that "this will help stop Terrorists," the money flows. "Terrorists" have become the perfect bogey-man, to be found under every toadstool. But that's not reality, and when your "security" policies are based on non-reality, you can wind up more vulnerable than before. I think we are. I think we have invested billions of dollars in ... theater.

Another problem that's just now coming to light is that there are millions of people who have access to these "top" secrets. That's way too many. It has often been said that "Classified" is the Government's equivalent of Harry Potter's "Room of Requirement."

I think that Snowden exposed the program ... blew the whistle on it ... without particularly harming it. He was very selective about what he did and did not disclose. And I'm quite serious when I say that it would not surprise me in the slightest that a hundred thousand people had seen those PowerPoints.

"You can spend public money. You can even spent public money on this, 'by Due Process Of Law.' " (And a 'secret' kangaroo-court don't count.) "But there are also a lot of other, more worthy(!), things to spend public money on, too."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 07-02-2013 at 09:38 AM.
 
Old 07-02-2013, 11:28 AM   #18
DavidMcCann
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I read an article the other day comparing the modern generation of "whistle-blowers" with past protesters. The difference was that they used to accept the consequences of their actions, and this made the impact all the greater. Martin Luther King caught the attention of the USA with his "Letter from Birmingham Jail". Would "Letter from Moscow Airport" have had the same effect?
 
Old 07-02-2013, 12:31 PM   #19
H_TeXMeX_H
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I'll bet his agency buddies will help him stay out of jail and other trouble, just like they helped Assange. Sadly, the likelihood of his execution is close to 0%.

He'll definitely be on the news a lot tho, just like Assange. Their missions are to be in the public eye and bring about some change in their thinking and in country policy or politics. I'll guess we'll have to wait and see what change they are planning on.
 
Old 07-02-2013, 01:57 PM   #20
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That you can't seem to keep your conspiracy fetish in check is something we as a community apparently just have to tolerate. But some things are not justifiable and should not be condoned if we want LQ to remain a friendly, open and tolerant place. As LQ moderator I am sad to have to mark the below statement as a new low for you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Sadly, the likelihood of his execution is close to 0%.
Just because insulting (or worse) those unable to defend themselves here seems without repercussions does not necessarily mean you should do so and I wish you would refrain from expressing yourself that way.
Do let me know if you do not understand the threshold you just crossed.
 
Old 07-02-2013, 03:45 PM   #21
Nbiser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
I'll bet his agency buddies will help him stay out of jail and other trouble, just like they helped Assange. Sadly, the likelihood of his execution is close to 0%.

He'll definitely be on the news a lot tho, just like Assange. Their missions are to be in the public eye and bring about some change in their thinking and in country policy or politics. I'll guess we'll have to wait and see what change they are planning on.
How could you!!! The Linux community is all about freedom of the computer, and when somebody exposes tyranny in the field that Linux is supposed to defend, you say he should be executed. Especially when he is here and not able to defend himself.

I agree with unSpawn, this is a new low for you.
 
Old 07-02-2013, 04:40 PM   #22
mostlyharmless
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I would also move that the comment:
Quote:
A guy with a stripper girlfriend ought to give you a clue to what his is.
is also probably not consistent with LQ guidelines.
 
Old 07-02-2013, 08:30 PM   #23
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Kind of a shame you guys have lived a sheltered life. You guys must think those strippers are really trying to work their way though college. I used to work in construction. Plenty of guys out of the pen dealing drugs, conceiving crooked plans and with their prostitute stripper girlfriends. Grow up. There are really bad guys that ought to be in prison. There are really bad girls that end up being strippers. Strippers tend to be prostitutes. Good girls don't strip. Good boys don't end up in the pen.
Richard Pryor said "thank God for prisons"

Sadly there are some folks that think better with aluminum hats on. The NSA doesn't have billions of dollars to watch you download hulu from the EU. They do have a monumental task with trying to tie terrorists and terror nations with people in the US. I say people not necessarily Americans. Millions of people in the US are not Americans. Not even sure one taxi driver or convenience store owner is anymore. Are they all bad? No, not by a long shot, most are honest hard working folks. Do I want to know who is trying to murder us? Yes.


Maybe some day, everyone will not tell fib's. They won't steal, murder and rape. Maybe we will live in heaven. Until then you had better know how bad your enemies are.

I know there are a lot of people here from countries that are in a battle with terrorist right now. Their own countries are finding these cells even in some of the most civil countries.

Snowden is in trouble right now.

Last edited by jefro; 07-02-2013 at 08:38 PM.
 
Old 07-02-2013, 08:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
Kind of a shame you guys have lived a sheltered life. You guys must think those strippers are really trying to work their way though college. I used to work in construction. Plenty of guys out of the pen dealing drugs, conceiving crooked plans and with their prostitute stripper girlfriends. Grow up. There are really bad guys that ought to be in prison. There are really bad girls that end up being strippers. Strippers tend to be prostitutes. Good girls don't strip. Good boys don't end up in the pen.
Richard Pryor said "thank God for prisons"

Sadly there are some folks that think better with aluminum hats on. The NSA doesn't have billions of dollars to watch you download hulu from the EU. They do have a monumental task with trying to tie terrorists and terror nations with people in the US. I say people not necessarily Americans. Millions of people in the US are not Americans. Not even sure one taxi driver or convenience store owner is. Are they all bad? No. Do I want to know who is trying to murder us? Yes.
What ever happened to the old American ideal "give me liberty or give me death." Sadly, today, many people would rather give up their liberty than die. They trust the fox, to guard them, the hens, from an enemy that will more than likely never strike them.

Yes, the NSA does have that much money to do that. They are currently building a large data center with 10,000 zilliobyte hard drives or something like that; where did they get the money? They borrowed it from China.
 
Old 07-02-2013, 08:51 PM   #25
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We don't know the real story in this anyway anymore than we do know who all killed Kennedy.

In a similar light, nuclear weapon research, and building has killed more Americans than any bomb ever did if you believe some studies. Does it mean it was a fair trade off between world powers or a few lives. We may never know. Pretty sure China and Russia lost a lot more sadly in their race.

I just don't think NSA is the bad guy and I don't think Snowden is a good guy.

The government seems to have gotten lazy over the last twenty years. They hire contractors to do fingerprinting. Seems harmless enough except you also know that your SSN and every other important data is also on that card. They hire companies to automate tickets on red lights and speed. Those same contractors adjust the timing of the lights and set new speed limits in many cases. The IRS targets organizations that a normal lazy public employee may be against.

I am mad, maybe at NSA but I have a long list ahead of them.

I just had some crook copy my credit card somehow. I doubt it was NSA.
 
Old 07-03-2013, 02:28 AM   #26
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbiser View Post
How could you!!! The Linux community is all about freedom of the computer, and when somebody exposes tyranny in the field that Linux is supposed to defend, you say he should be executed. Especially when he is here and not able to defend himself.

I agree with unSpawn, this is a new low for you.
Eposes tyranny ? Really ? From what I get, all he has done is exposed himself as a traitor. How has he helped anyone ? What has exposed that you could not have deduced beforehand ? The NSA is an organization that monitors everything. Is it tyrannical ? It's just doing its job. For one of its agents to betray them and to defect to the enemy, that is treason.

Quote:
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381

New low ? I don't care what you think of me, this is the punishment for treason, and it is a just punishment.
 
Old 07-03-2013, 03:02 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Quote:
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381
Who said he waged war? Who said he adhered to their enemies? or did anything else listed in that quote. He exposed the US government for its deception against its own people and its alleged allies, something we all knew it and other governments have been doing for years anyway, but he didn't wage any war nor did he adhere to any enemy.
 
Old 07-03-2013, 03:23 AM   #28
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Who said he waged war? Who said he adhered to their enemies? or did anything else listed in that quote. He exposed the US government for its deception against its own people and its alleged allies, something we all knew it and other governments have been doing for years anyway, but he didn't wage any war nor did he adhere to any enemy.
The word used was 'levy' not 'wage'. He is provoking war with his actions, with the EU for one:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...es-4175467930/
He is also in Russia, and who says he hasn't said more to the Russians ?

He should be tried for treason, and I hope he is found guilty.
 
Old 07-03-2013, 04:13 AM   #29
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
The word used was 'levy' not 'wage'.
Definition of Levy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
He is provoking war with his actions, with the EU for one:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...es-4175467930/
So a whole heap of NATO countries will go to war against another NATO country? I doubt it but you are entitled to an opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
He is also in Russia, and who says he hasn't said more to the Russians ?
I am well aware of where he is. Who said he has said anything to the Russians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
He should be tried for treason, and I hope he is found guilty.
I never expected any other opinion from you. Extreme to the last.
 
Old 07-03-2013, 09:24 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Eposes tyranny ? Really ? From what I get, all he has done is exposed himself as a traitor. How has he helped anyone ? What has exposed that you could not have deduced beforehand ? The NSA is an organization that monitors everything. Is it tyrannical ? It's just doing its job. For one of its agents to betray them and to defect to the enemy, that is treason.


http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381

New low ? I don't care what you think of me, this is the punishment for treason, and it is a just punishment.
Yep, average flag waving American that believes whatever the government says. Snowden was only obeying the oath that he swore to uphold the constitution. He didn't harm anyone in the U.S. Nor, did he levy war on the U.S. And he isn't giving information to our enemies that can harm us.

You say that the NSA was doing its job. Its job is to uphold and defend the constitution, and it doesn't do that if it is breaking the constitution by violating our persons and papers.

As far as "defending us from terrorism" they have not been doing a real good job of that. And any way, if our government would stop sticking its nose into other nations business, perhaps the terrorists wouldn't be coming over here at all. How would you feel if, Iran, for instance, came over here to the U.S. with battleships, soldiers, tanks, etc., to "help" us deal with social unrest, illegal immigration, etc. I know that I wouldn't like it. Especially if they overthrew our government and established a new one! That is exactly what we are doing, and they won't stop attacking us until our government gets its dirty nose out of their affairs. Every day we here that the Geneva Convention or the UN is scolding us for violation of the sovereignty of other nations. Thus, there wouldn't even be a terrorist problem that would need to be addressed if we stopped trying to be the policeman of the world.
 
  


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