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Wars are the epitome of non-sense, created by a species that price their rational thinking as their exclusive behaviour. A temporary bath on madness that may someday end their walk on planet Earth unless they stop playing games.
There's an event these days called "the Iraq War". It's in the news! This thread is for discussing the most probable cause for this war... Some say it was for "freedom". Others say it was for oil. Was it a fault in the law of karma for 9/11 before? Was it family pride?
Let us know...
There are no explicit rules. Common-sense applies... and a deep respect for truth. Don't just try to convince anyone, it may be a side effect. Truth is not what a majority thinks or says.
Anyway, let's Truth be served
There is certainly the perception that it is oil related. It doesn't seem to be doing much for stability is the area and it's been bad for US PR... Was not a wise move to invade without UN backing, and there was no UN backing because there was no clear reason to invade. The WOMD was just a big story...
War on terror? Better invade Saudi then, eh
It is worth remembering that one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. There were a few 'terrorists' in france during WWII, I'm sure...
amosf: Here in Venezuela we have our hero: Simon Bolivar. There's a famous letter from him. The title may be translated as "declaration of war until death" that was essentially a death threat against _every_ spanish that wasn't "actively helping" to our incipient battle for independency.
He's a hero now. But these times he'd be called a terrorist like Yassir Arafat.
Yes, I was just thinking that today. It appeared the war was quickly over, and yet in reality it seems to be still being fought today. I doubt it will ever be 'over'.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years... We also should remember we have
always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
Yep, I think that shows the reality of the situation. The president, regardless of the party crap, really needs to say what most of the people want to hear... And people like blowing things up. A good war means 24/7 coverage of blowing things up on CNN... Cool
It's also a good idea to have a war so you can keep the eyes on the 'blowing up' and not on internal matters.
Originally posted by primo Wars are the epitome of non-sense, created by a species that price their rational thinking as their exclusive behaviour. A temporary bath on madness that may someday end their walk on planet Earth unless they stop playing games.
There's an event these days called "the Iraq War". It's in the news! This thread is for discussing the most probable cause for this war... Some say it was for "freedom". Others say it was for oil. Was it a fault in the law of karma for 9/11 before? Was it family pride?
Let us know...
There are no explicit rules. Common-sense applies... and a deep respect for truth. Don't just try to convince anyone, it may be a side effect. Truth is not what a majority thinks or says.
Anyway, let's Truth be served
You are a troll. Nobody cares what u think about the war in Iraq. I almost wish
that the USA would send two jet fighters and 1 company of marines and take over Caracas. Oh, sorry, that would be overkill. One jet fighter.
danimalz: you desperately need a collective response because of your own incompetence, be it from your own government or the persons in this forum. But you need to vent your spleen anyway, it's not your fault.
Primo, are you God? Your posts exhibit a kind of " I am better than you and no matter what anyone says I am right "
If wars are the epitome of non sense then I guess WW2 was just non sense that could have been avoided by allowing germany to take over europe and murder anyone that wasnt german or their race.
and let Japan take over asia. Sheesh Primo, where were you during WW2 and all other wars, we could have saved millions of lives if you were around.
It's wasn't Bush's fault to believe the WMD paranoia. It was the most-credible lie and he used it to its own profit.
To me, the war was nothing more than a miscalculated move to get oil profits. They obviously thought it would be easy and that benefits would prove greater than bellical costs.
Note: France didn't support the war because of their own investments on Iraq at the time. The nuclear tests at Mururoa Atoll proves Chirac is driven by the same vein
You entitle this thread '.. is it for oil..?' Get real, of course it is.
You are naive or just plain simple if you believe that any leader can
be frank about the purposes of their national and foreign policy. If
G. Bush was to say " we are going to invade iraq to secure stable
oil supplies..." what would be the world response..? Yet you benefit from
the oil market that exists solely because of America's safeguarding of it.
Okay, you still don't understand. Okay. If there weren't a stable market
for oil; if it were to collapse - then, there would be a free for all. Countries with
the means and the will would resort to force to sieze the oil in the most ruthless
ways. Your beautiful Venezuela wouldn't last a day.
Originally posted by BajaNick
Primo, are you God? Your posts exhibit a kind of " I am better than you and no matter what anyone says I am right "
No. But I'm certainly not afraid to expose my views, not even if they have faults.
Quote:
If wars are the epitome of non sense then I guess WW2 was just non sense that could have been avoided by allowing germany to take over europe and murder anyone that wasnt german or their race.
and let Japan take over asia. Sheesh Primo, where were you during WW2 and all other wars, we could have saved millions of lives if you were around. [/B]
The germans weren't the only villains in this story...
It is the epitome of non-sense because it's a state of collective delusion, and it's not about saving lives.
I believe our rational thinking is so recent in biological terms, that the only way we have is to enforce them with irrational ways. The people in this part of Europe knows what is war in the skin (I'm translating a spanish expression), this is why they refuse war: it can become a reflex as if there were an unconscious "trauma" in the collective psyche
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