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Old 04-26-2013, 01:28 PM   #16
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
That's not the test. The test is whether you can use a third party cable box.
Probably with AT&T you can't use another cablebox. However, for other cable companies you might be able to. The difference is that AT&T uses a single modem/router for both internet and cable. You would have to find a device with similar capabilities and put in all the authentication needed ... it's probably not plausible. I would not use AT&T anyway, because their arbitration clause.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 01:35 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Maybe for PPV, but not for regular viewing. Sure, the signal is probably encrypted, and it has to decrypt it, but that's not really DRM.
I haven't read the HTML5 DRM proposal, but this "not really DRM" is exactly how I'd expect HTM5 DRM to work. And yes, of course it's really DRM, unless you expect everyone to have unrestricted unpaid access to the decryption keys.

Direct link to the proposal:

https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/ra...ted-media.html

Last edited by dugan; 04-26-2013 at 01:40 PM.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 01:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
I'm not quite that philosophical about it. I care if I can do whatever I want with what I pay for. That's what I care about, and not the DRM itself. CSS is broken, I don't care about it because it doesn't hinder me. DRM on the other hand, hinders me, so I am against it ... until it is broken too.
So why the objection to DRM in HTML5? The only people using it will be the people already using Silverlight and Flash so it's not changing anything for you at all -- you still won't be able to watch the things that you can't watch already.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 01:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by 273 View Post
So why the objection to DRM in HTML5? The only people using it will be the people already using Silverlight and Flash
And game consoles and mobile devices, which are becoming the defacto media players now.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 01:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
And game consoles and mobile devices, which are becoming the defacto media players now.
Well, yes, and other "devices" like fridges probably...

I have to admit that one thing which does worry me about DRM in HTML5 is that of "trusted platform" type situations where something must be added to the kernel -- that could be problematic. Though some sites apparently require HAL to work so I wonder is there something like this built into HAL anyhow?
 
Old 04-26-2013, 01:54 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
Well, yes, and other "devices" like fridges probably...

I have to admit that one thing which does worry me about DRM in HTML5 is that of "trusted platform" type situations where something must be added to the kernel -- that could be problematic. Though some sites apparently require HAL to work so I wonder is there something like this built into HAL anyhow?
I would speculate that HAL is used to generate the decryption key, using a one way hash function whose input is taken from the system hardware.

Last edited by dugan; 04-26-2013 at 01:59 PM.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 02:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
I would speculate that HAL is used to generate an decryption key, using a one way hash function whose input is the system hardware.
Am I right in thinking that HAL is a little like LSB in that it provides certain functionality and APIs that are standardised, so things tend to be built against it?
 
Old 04-26-2013, 02:04 PM   #23
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I don't think things tend to get built against HAL anymore. I mean, didn't the "encrypted Flash video requires HAL" issue come to light only because HAL got deprecated, causing Amazon Instant Video stopped working for a lot of people?

I would expect Mozilla, Google and Opera to be more on top of changes like this than Adobe is. (Point is: it would be a good thing to shift control from Adobe to the browser manufacturers).

Last edited by dugan; 04-26-2013 at 02:19 PM.
 
Old 04-26-2013, 02:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
I don't think things tend to get built against HAL anymore. I mean, didn't the "encrypted Flash video requires HAL" issue come to light only because HAL got deprecated, causing Amazon Instant Video stopped working for a lot of people?

I would expect Mozilla, Google and Opera to be more on top of changes like this than Adobe is.
Well, yes, think you're right there as it did seem to take a while for people to notice it had gone.

I don't think Firefox, Google Earth or opera need HAL. Actually I know they don't as I've had them all installed before I installed HAL "just in case".

Last edited by 273; 04-26-2013 at 02:09 PM.
 
Old 04-27-2013, 02:49 AM   #25
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I know they will implement it no matter what. I just hope there is a way to disable it. There probably will be a way, even if it means editing source code.

You don't know these people, you give them a finger and they'll take your arm off. You'll see.
 
Old 05-01-2013, 09:40 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
[rant]
You forgot the closing [/rant]
 
Old 05-01-2013, 11:06 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post

[rant]
DRM is not going to lead anywhere good. I think problem is that you need trust in any relationship and interaction. The trust between consumers and the entertainment industry no longer exists. I'm not sure who struck first, but both are guilty.

The entertainment industry is guilty for putting out overpriced garbage for us to buy and looking for all sorts of aggressive schemes to make more money ... such as advertising everywhere, claiming that it pays part of the cost. They want too much of a profit margin and have decreased the quality of their work significantly.

The consumers are guilty of piracy, not all of them, but many or most. Part of it is a natural reaction to the increasing prices and decreasing wages, but some of it is a break of trust and malevolent. I don't think the entertainment industry recognizes both of these, and they focus on the latter.

If there were only some way to implement a ceasefire. The govn't should step in, but they don't care. I guess it's up to us, the people to do something.

For sure boycotting DRM is a good thing to do, but it won't stop them. If only there were some way to prove that we are not malevolent pirates, and to convince them to let go of some of the profit, because they can live well enough still without their 10th vacation home, 9 vacation homes should be enough.

I don't know if any solution will be found before something collapses, but I will try for whatever solution is plausible.

I think people should be more aware of what they are buying, of its quality and if it has DRM. Do not buy DRM, and do not buy low quality garbage. Also fight against their manipulation of movie ratings on imdb and other places.
[/rant]
Agreed
 
Old 05-02-2013, 02:41 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3nCi View Post
You forgot the closing [/rant]
Alright, here:

[/rant]
 
Old 05-02-2013, 04:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
I know they will implement it no matter what. I just hope there is a way to disable it. There probably will be a way, even if it means editing source code.
If I may suggest ... DRM is needed just so that it exists, whether or not it is "breakable by editing source-code." Some 'locking' mechanism needs to be in-place, even if it can be bypassed, just to "keep the honest people out." The DRM scheme makes the copyright holder's intentions clear, and makes it 'necessary' to spend money to obtain use of the material in the manner that the copyright holder intended ... while also making it at-least 'not trivially possible' to outright-ignore those intentions.

This, alone, is enough. It doesn't matter that the padlock in question is the most flimsy padlock ever made. What does matter is that the padlock is there.

Remember that these materials are being provided to the public in what is intended to be a commercial enterprise. Someone out there has developed it, and is providing it, with the proviso that you are to pay money for it. (And don't get high-and-mighty on me ... if you're of the age that you have to work for a living, then your salary is coming from the fact that someone out there is "paying money" for something ... a portion of which becomes "your salary." Commerce works.)

Many government agencies are prohibited to spend public(!) money on anything that does not require public money to obtain. Every sentient business feels the same. So, it really doesn't matter if the algorithm in question "would require any geek fifteen seconds to lock-pick," because your customers don't pick locks.
 
Old 05-03-2013, 02:49 AM   #30
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I agree that some type of DRM is inevitable (because of companies), but I don't think it should be a part of any standard.

RMS posted a criticism of it as well:
http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/w3c-soul-at-stake
There are more criticisms linked here:
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/05/...e-drm-in-html5
 
  


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