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Old 05-25-2011, 10:26 AM   #1426
H_TeXMeX_H
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Ok, finally some links.

1) In order for redshift/blueshift calculations to work, you have to know the original color of the star, right ? How do they know that ? I'll tell you how: They don't. They make a lot of assumptions, and I think they mostly try to squeeze that cat into the box.

2) You cannot see the whole universe, so saying such a general statement about the universe as it is expanding is ridiculous. How can you possibly know about then universe when you can only see a speck.

3) So, the universe was created from a single point. Why ? How this point appear ? Where did it come from ? What are the reasons behind it ? I'll bet you God is behind it.
 
Old 05-25-2011, 10:37 AM   #1427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
3) So, the universe was created from a single point. Why ? How this point appear ? Where did it come from ? What are the reasons behind it ? I'll bet you God is behind it.
Absolutely no problems to ask that the other way:
So, the universe was created steady state. Why? How did this universe appear? Where did it come from? What are the reasons behind it?

Does that mean that the steady state theory is BS? If so, what is your theory?
 
Old 05-25-2011, 10:49 AM   #1428
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Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Absolutely no problems to ask that the other way:
So, the universe was created steady state. Why? How did this universe appear? Where did it come from? What are the reasons behind it?

Does that mean that the steady state theory is BS? If so, what is your theory?
The universe was NOT created.
 
Old 05-25-2011, 10:50 AM   #1429
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3) So, the universe was created from a single point. Why ? How this point appear ? Where did it come from ? What are the reasons behind it ? I'll bet you God is behind it.
On the other hand, explain the Steady State. Most things have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Why is the Universe any different? I probably haven't read as much as you on this subject, but I've never been able to understand the idea that the Universe has always existed. No beginning? No evolution? No end?
 
Old 05-25-2011, 10:58 AM   #1430
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Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Ok, finally some links.

1) In order for redshift/blueshift calculations to work, you have to know the original color of the star, right ? How do they know that ? I'll tell you how: They don't. They make a lot of assumptions, and I think they mostly try to squeeze that cat into the box.

2) You cannot see the whole universe, so saying such a general statement about the universe as it is expanding is ridiculous. How can you possibly know about then universe when you can only see a speck.

3) So, the universe was created from a single point. Why ? How this point appear ? Where did it come from ? What are the reasons behind it ? I'll bet you God is behind it.
1) Well, this is the point at which it gets a little complicated. You'd have to understand atomic emmission and absorbtion spectra, because that supplies the constant against which redshift is measured. I recommend you focus your new research in this direction.

2) But all of the universe you CAN see is exhibiting this phenomena, so until you find a part of the universe moving in a different direction which falsifies the theory, it's still valid.

Also, there's that bit about the CMB being successfully mapped into a view of the early universe that you'd have to deal with.

3) LOL. You keep asking for evidence, so where's your evidence for this nonsense?

Why, apart from a human desire to feel special, does the universe have to have a reason?
 
Old 05-25-2011, 11:02 AM   #1431
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I'll bet you God is behind it.
Are you trying to prove that every theory you can't understand "have religion behind it" and therefore "is BS"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
The universe was NOT created.
Great. How can you prove that?

By the way, you may want to watch this: Sci Fi Science: Creating a Big Bang
 
Old 05-25-2011, 11:04 AM   #1432
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I suppose it is a difficult idea to understand, because indeed things within the human realm of experience have a beginning, middle, and end. However, I don't think the universe has any of these. Why ? Because it wouldn't make sense. You would always keep asking why and never find an answer. The answer is that you're asking the wrong question, a question that has no answer. I suppose this also is difficult to understand, because people expect and want an answer to everything. Well, in this case the universe has always been here, is here, and will always be here. It was never created and it will never be destroyed. It is a perfect, self-sustaining, self-recycling system. Truly something to marvel at. If you take it this way, and then re-analyze everything, I think things will make more sense.

Obviously, there is no proof for what I say, absolutely none, other than I would say the laws of conservation of mass and energy, and the fact that no boundary to the universe has been found. And also the fact that the universe is here, and has not been destroyed long ago, or deteriorated into a molten plasma, or spread out until nothing was left. No, none of that has happened. I think it's stable and perfect and something to marvel at, without any deities or bangs or other crazy stuff.
 
Old 05-25-2011, 11:07 AM   #1433
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Originally Posted by SL00b View Post
1) Well, this is the point at which it gets a little complicated. You'd have to understand atomic emmission and absorbtion spectra, because that supplies the constant against which redshift is measured. I recommend you focus your new research in this direction.
I know that each element has a unique spectrum, and that this is what they use. But, my argument still stands, they still assume that stars have a set pattern of absorption based upon their age and composition ... both of which must be ASSUMED.
 
Old 05-25-2011, 11:32 AM   #1434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
if I post a link, I doubt people will actually click it.
And why would you doubt that, unless the link goes to a website that many people would consider to be unreliable?

BTW, this might interest the more intellectually curious posters here:

'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss, AAI 2009

Last edited by dugan; 05-25-2011 at 11:51 AM.
 
Old 05-25-2011, 11:52 AM   #1435
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Honestly, I don't like what they call 'science'. It is a strict and doggedly stubborn field, and a very corrupt one as of late. I do not consider myself a scientist, even tho most people now do. I think I would rather be a philosopher. There is too little good quality thought that goes into science. This is what science lacks most. Science today seems to be about getting the most number of rats in your study so that you can prove anything you want by messing with the statistics. Nobody ever even questions the validity of these experiments that they do. And what's with all this contradiction in science ? I've searched for many many studies over the years, and I'll bet you that almost anything you search with have studies that have opposite finding. And, if you actually look beyond the abstract and maybe even beyond the paper itself, you'll find a lot of other rats, big ones that look like humans.
 
Old 05-25-2011, 11:54 AM   #1436
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I know that each element has a unique spectrum, and that this is what they use. But, my argument still stands, they still assume that stars have a set pattern of absorption based upon their age and composition ... both of which must be ASSUMED.
Age and composition don't enter into it. You said it yourself... "each ELEMENT has a unique spectrum." Hydrogen is hydrogen.
 
Old 05-25-2011, 11:54 AM   #1437
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Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Nobody ever even questions the validity of these experiments that they do.
Quote:
I've searched for many many studies over the years, and I'll bet you that almost anything you search with have studies that have opposite finding.
Just taking these two points at face value, do you see that they're not consistent?

Last edited by dugan; 05-25-2011 at 11:56 AM.
 
Old 05-25-2011, 12:04 PM   #1438
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I suppose it is a difficult idea to understand, because indeed things within the human realm of experience have a beginning, middle, and end. However, I don't think the universe has any of these. Why ?
Here's where we get to the crux of the problem, which is that you're starting with a set of preconceptions which aren't at all true.

Very, very few things within the human real of experience have a beginning, middle, and end. Life is not a novel.

Heck, take a human life itself. It has a beginning, which is conception, and it has an end, which is death. OR DOES IT??

The story of one human life only begins at birth if you make that an arbitrary assignment, because that life is influenced by things that come before, like the life of the parents... life of the grandparents... history of a culture... history of a civilization... evolution... history of the solar system... Big Bang. Likewise, a human's story doesn't simply end at death, because like ripples in a pond, that life influences events far after it is gone.

With the universe, you could say that it has a beginning, which was the Big Bang, it has a middle, which is now, and it has an end, which is ??. It's possible something else came before the singularity, but since the Big Bang was the moment at which our current space-time began, we have no way of discerning it, so it works as well as a "beginning" as anything else we're likely to come up with.
 
Old 05-25-2011, 12:05 PM   #1439
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Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Honestly, I don't like what they call 'science'. It is a strict and doggedly stubborn field, and a very corrupt one as of late. I do not consider myself a scientist, even tho most people now do. I think I would rather be a philosopher. There is too little good quality thought that goes into science. This is what science lacks most. Science today seems to be about getting the most number of rats in your study so that you can prove anything you want by messing with the statistics. Nobody ever even questions the validity of these experiments that they do. And what's with all this contradiction in science ? I've searched for many many studies over the years, and I'll bet you that almost anything you search with have studies that have opposite finding. And, if you actually look beyond the abstract and maybe even beyond the paper itself, you'll find a lot of other rats, big ones that look like humans.
So now you're saying, you don't even understand science. Because you'd never say the bolded text if you did.
 
Old 05-25-2011, 12:11 PM   #1440
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Heck, take a human life itself. It has a beginning, which is conception, and it has an end, which is death. OR DOES IT??
From the point of view of other people, it does. From your own point of view, I don't know, I guess I'll find out one day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SL00b View Post
So now you're saying, you don't even understand science. Because you'd never say the bolded text if you did.
Oh, I would. I know what peer-review means, and I know how it works. Make sure only your buddies review your paper, and then all you need is a bit of power to mute anyone who wishes to challenge you.
 
  


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