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Old 06-16-2017, 09:37 AM   #7741
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Excepting reality in never knowing as science must and eventually will do (ie evolution,) will be better than excepting "we" made fairy tails—any sort.

We are born, we believe or learn‽ That's that!

The word universe is stupid, there are solar systems* expanding* and contracting*** a duu.
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Old 06-19-2017, 09:05 PM   #7742
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Sorry guys but the following is from a thread that was getting derailed and actually belongs here. Our old friend BW-userx asked me why I hated God to which I replied that is absurd since how can one hate that which doesn't exist? His response is quoted here

Quote:
Originally Posted by BW-userx View Post
blah blah blah you're so stuck on your own thoughts (closed minded) that'd be like telling you where the sink is but still not being about to get you to drink a glass of water.

that is why, or should it be, is that why - anyways - you're away going into the thread for REGION. yet seeings how your belief system does not have a God in Heaven but oneself as a god instead - and using that thread to try and spread your region within it. so you hate what you do not fully understand so you always mock region whenever someone so much as even slightly hints anything remotely about it having something to do with a GOD. like in this thread.

so there has to be something within your psyche that has had something to do with GOD that sent you into hate mode about it.
Once again, though I can almost imagine why you think so, I assure you I don't hate God since, as I stated if I'm correct and he/she/it doesn't exist that makes zero sense. If I am wrong and there is a Creator it appears to me that any manner of intervention breaks the rules and ruins the level playing field I would expect required when the stakes are so high as Eternity, so the existence or not doesn't matter in that it has no effect on how I live my life.

That does in no way imply that I assume I am God. I know I didn't create The Universe. I can't even possibly comprehend an entity that could. I'm reasonable certain I'm not Immortal because my Mother, who rarely lies, says she gave birth to me. So right off the bat I fail two important job qualifications. On a much more important and abstract level I doubt the veracity of the very CONCEPT of God, and frankly I wouldn't want the job even if it did exist. It apparently has slave wages for cooly hours and no retirement plan.

So if you need to imagine it so, go right ahead. I can't stop you........ and that alone is evidence I am not God nor imagine it so.
 
Old 06-20-2017, 06:58 AM   #7743
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LoL

Once again: we are born, we believe or learn‽ That's that!

Why with so many "g0d$," choose 1 or even
 
Old 06-20-2017, 07:02 AM   #7744
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Question

Or, would that question kill your belief;;; good grief...
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Old 06-20-2017, 08:42 AM   #7745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Sorry guys but the following is from a thread that was getting derailed and actually belongs here. Our old friend BW-userx asked me why I hated God to which I replied that is absurd since how can one hate that which doesn't exist? His response is quoted here



Once again, though I can almost imagine why you think so, I assure you I don't hate God since, as I stated if I'm correct and he/she/it doesn't exist that makes zero sense.
key word IF - reveals what about you?
Quote:
If I am wrong and there is a Creator it appears to me that any manner of intervention breaks the rules and ruins the level playing field I would expect required when the stakes are so high as Eternity, so the existence or not doesn't matter in that it has no effect on how I live my life.
breaks who's rules? yours. why are you playing God? The God (is real) effect is that He makes the rules not man. So if and when Gods does intervene it is because He can and in doing so He has good reason to do so. Not just because he got board and decided to just mess with his creation out of some warped psychological need to feed his ego.

the existence of Eternity doesn't matter to you and has no effect on how you live your life. Why yes it does. You do not see clearly a possibility of Eternity so you live your life how ever you want. whereas ones that do believe and know of such things do not. So YES, It has a big effect on how people live their lives.

You make up your own rules for God to even play by putting yourself above Him by how you think.

You expect that being that the stakes are so high that any intervention by God would be braking some rules you seem to have made up that Christians have to live by. You're Not Christian. what right do you think you have to say such a thing? as I have explained before this manner of thinking is part of your God complex, and you do not even see it. it is because we are made in the image and likeness of God one does this. They that deny the True God just take his place and make themselves the god of their lives instead. They have the say in what they do or do not do no matter what. By disbelieving in the God we all came by ones that do this and some that even say they believe still do not obey His laws.

Therefore they are putting themselves above God by making up their own laws to live by instead. Breaking Gods laws in the process. so even them that say they are Christians that do this too will not share that Eternity with God. instead they too go to Hell for all of Eternity along with all of the others that do not really believe in God.


Quote:

That does in no way imply that I assume I am God.
already pointed that out.

Quote:
I know I didn't create The Universe. I can't even possibly comprehend an entity that could. I'm reasonable certain I'm not Immortal because my Mother, who rarely lies, says she gave birth to me. So right off the bat I fail two important job qualifications. On a much more important and abstract level I doubt the veracity of the very CONCEPT of God, and frankly I wouldn't want the job even if it did exist. It apparently has slave wages for cooly hours and no retirement plan.
Ole' to the rationalization and justification of man.

if you did exist with the powers and abilities that God has. I think you'd have a completely different attitude about wanting to exist.

Quote:
So if you need to imagine it so, go right ahead. I can't stop you........ and that alone is evidence I am not God nor imagine it so.
you image a world of no God every day of your life. That does not mean he does not exist.
 
Old 06-20-2017, 11:58 AM   #7746
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With so many "gods" to be born into, why is yours real?
 
Old 06-20-2017, 11:59 AM   #7747
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You image a world with a "god" every day of your life. That does not mean he exists.
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Old 06-20-2017, 12:17 PM   #7748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
You image a world with a "god" every day of your life. That does not mean he exists.
so take some fire crackers and light them, then toss them into a mess of whatever and see if anything intelligent grows out of any unicellular organisms after they explode.

Where is the logic in actually thinking let alone believing that something like that could actually happen?

blow something up and out of it arises a creation more intelligent then the thing that blew it up. the thing being a fire cracker not a thinking being that posses an intelligences that lit it.

as I seen in here some cannot differentiate between the senses and the mind that takes in that information and tries to make sense of what the senses gives the mind to analyze.

the senses only provide the truth whereas the mind can obscure it or discount it, or try and enplane it away to the point of just plainly denying it all together.

Last edited by BW-userx; 06-20-2017 at 01:36 PM.
 
Old 06-20-2017, 01:45 PM   #7749
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Fire crackers took over a 1,000 years to develop and are real; be careful they can blow up archives of fairy tales to prove or undo them, as they have before...

all of us are born into beliefs but realities beckon whereas beliefs contradict unless blindly followed!
 
Old 06-20-2017, 02:13 PM   #7750
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Arrow

For the record "the big bang" is a theory whereas a seed* can become an ecosystem.*

Like a wave belief helped build bombs more than any but once all know we can let it go...
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:24 PM   #7751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
Fire crackers took over a 1,000 years to develop and are real; be careful they can blow up archives of fairy tales to prove or undo them, as they have before...

all of us are born into beliefs but realities beckon whereas beliefs contradict unless blindly followed!
again rationalization if cannot think in abstract modes of ideas to gain further understand of a point being made. psychopathological interference prevents such individuals from actively living ... does not compute - does not compute - does not compute -- I don't get it -- where did I put my crayons?

not actually saying it is anyone in particular just saying.
 
Old 06-20-2017, 02:26 PM   #7752
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@ BW-userx - Perhaps we are like oil and water and neither one of us will ever understand the other on this subject. You apparently see my use of "if" as a weakness since, if I understand anything about your POV, you seek certainty and anything short of that is failure. I don't think that way at all. My use of "if" signifies that I'm willing to challenge any conclusion I have and if the evidence is there, take an altered path which I see as refinement. I see that as adaptability and strength, not weakness..

Because you somehow believe your interpretation of an ancient text written by many different superstitious people and translated and edited many times you think you understand God and God's ways. I find that both ignorant and arrogant. I know I am puny compared to anything even ,001% of the way to Creator but all I have for tools to comprehend the world and those in it are my earthbound human senses and sensibilities guided by Reason. I don't... no let me correct that... I can't imagine that God, if I assume there is one for a moment in an attempt to be objective, can be willing to judge people as winners and losers if the game is rigged.

If God can step in at anytime and tweak the game, it is rigged. So I choose to not play such a game as that game is not fairly testing me or anyone else to the best my brain can figure out. Furthermore while it is stated that we have Free Will and rightly must take responsibility for our choices, added on to that is "Here are My rules and if you pick them you get eternal ecstacy and if you don't it's eternal torture for you. My game. My rules... and you're free to choose but I can step in if I want to and change anything and there will be no explanation". Sorry. I just can't buy that authoritarian mess.

Maybe in those ancient times a majority of people needed Big Rules, strictly enforced but. speaking only for myself, I don't. George Carlin has a great routine in which he interprets the Ten Commandments and after leaving out the "Worship me and only me" stuff whittles it down to three - Don't lie, Don't Steal, and Don't kill. My view of that is "Well duh!". I avoid lying even at great cost because I find it counterproductive and also don't wish to be lied to. I have no desire to steal because I trust in the equation of "A day's work for a day's wage" and earned wages come with peace and pride, a bonus I like... plus, I also don't want others to steal from me. I have no interest whatsoever in even hurting another let alone taking a life, unless mine is directly at stake. So I really don't need the threat of eternal suffering nor to believe in things I know to not be true.

Now that I have written this down it becomes clearer that the reason we are oil and water is because you trust in YOUR interpretation of ancient text and I do not indulge it or my own desires to see the world as I wish. I have to test things till they make sense to me and as much good as I can find in the Christian Bible, as a whole it is at best a novel, an artifact of a much, much earlier time. To my way of thinking you and others like you conveniently ignore contradictions and downright impossibilities in that text and in fact "cherry pick" and spin to arrive at a whole you can live with. I not only consider that utterly futile but in direct violation of using what you see as the gifts you have been given to their highest potential.

Please understand I am not admonishing you or trying to hurt you with my words. I am human and as is so recently obvious, can get frustrated and become a bit harsh but that has been slight and rare, as that is not my purpose. I'm just trying to describe the view from my property... and perhaps, ultimately make a case for Religions to stop killing what they view as heathens, non-believers, infidels, whatever label is used for those who disagree. That makes no sense to me and threatens us all.
 
Old 06-20-2017, 02:36 PM   #7753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BW-userx View Post
blow something up and out of it arises a creation more intelligent then the thing that blew it up. .
I'm probably talking to the wall in this, but in fact there would be no you and me had not a star exploded to make elements heavier than magnesium, including the iron in your bloodstream and the calcium in your bones.

Google - Nucleosynthesis
 
Old 06-20-2017, 02:41 PM   #7754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I'm probably talking to the wall in this, but in fact there would be no you and me had not a star exploded to make elements heavier than magnesium, including the iron in your bloodstream and the calcium in your bones.

Google - Nucleosynthesis
that does not explain the ability to give a lump of clay with all of the ingredients within it life. that only shows that yes we where created out of the earth we live on. if anything.

Last edited by BW-userx; 06-20-2017 at 02:42 PM.
 
Old 06-20-2017, 03:16 PM   #7755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
@ BW-userx - Perhaps we are like oil and water and neither one of us will ever understand the other on this subject. You apparently see my use of "if" as a weakness since,
I never not once indicated what I though it showed. that is completely on you. Not me. prejudging
Quote:
if I understand anything about your POV, you seek certainty and anything short of that is failure. I don't think that way at all. My use of "if" signifies that I'm willing to challenge any conclusion I have and if the evidence is there, take an altered path which I see as refinement. I see that as adaptability and strength, not weakness..

again I never said it was a weakness, where did you pull that idea out of?

this is all I said,
Quote:
key word IF - reveals what about you?
it is a question, not a statement. do you understand that much about the english language?

you seem to have a "habit" of reading into everything. one should not do that. it leads to errors.
Quote:

Because you somehow believe your interpretation of an ancient text written by many different superstitious people and translated and edited many times you think you understand God and God's ways.

I find that both ignorant and arrogant. I know I am puny compared to anything even ,001% of the way to Creator but all I have for tools to comprehend the world and those in it are my earthbound human senses and sensibilities guided by Reason. I don't... no let me correct that... I can't imagine that God, if I assume there is one for a moment in an attempt to be objective, can be willing to judge people as winners and losers if the game is rigged.
again by what rules are you applying in order to make a comparison to be judged as a winner or a loser?

if you break a law in the country you live in, then what can be said of that? you lose - now you have to serve jail time as a direct result of it. MAN Judges like this in everyday life. so why is it you cannot conceive that even a God that created us in His image and likeness cannot do the same as that in which he created does?



Quote:

If God can step in at anytime and tweak the game, it is rigged.
one, it is you that are stating or believing that if God was to step in it would only be so he can tweak it. define tweak because that is a generalizational term.

you have way too many precognitive ideas about something you do not even believe in. you have not done your research thoroughly enough to even understand yourself let alone God. that is what I am seeing out of you. I bet it is because of all of your precognitive ideas about God that is what is preventing you from seeing clearly.
Quote:

So I choose to not play such a game as that game is not fairly testing me or anyone else to the best my brain can figure out. Furthermore while it is stated that we have Free Will and rightly must take responsibility for our choices, added on to that is "Here are My rules and if you pick them you get eternal ecstacy and if you don't it's eternal torture for you. My game. My rules... and you're free to choose but I can step in if I want to and change anything and there will be no explanation". Sorry. I just can't buy that authoritarian mess.
you choose to not play that game? - you do not even understand all of the rules. so you fail only by your own fault not Gods.

but you do allow yourself to play the games that man makes up for others to play. including you.
Yes and God will hold you to that taking responsibility for our choices to not play his game of life. but again that too is your fault for not winning that game of life while you subject yourself to mans game of life which only ends up in a pine box in the end. while your soul still has to answer to God.

you cannot get out of it. Remember your words. "we have Free Will and rightly must take responsibility for our choices,"


Quote:

Maybe in those ancient times a majority of people needed Big Rules, strictly enforced but. speaking only for myself, I don't.
that is a statement of complete Independence . again you just made yourself your own god.
Quote:
George Carlin has a great routine in which he interprets the Ten Commandments and after leaving out the "Worship me and only me" stuff whittles it down to three - Don't lie, Don't Steal, and Don't kill. My view of that is "Well duh!".
leaving open rape and selfishness. no sharing of anything. get it yourself piss off I had to work for what I got so get out of my life I do not need you or your rules, BIG or small. I live by my own. way of thinking.

and even George Carlin had to do what you stated. He has Free Will and he will rightly take responsibility for his choices,".

Quote:
I avoid lying even at great cost because I find it counterproductive and also don't wish to be lied to.
to say one does not lie is a lie in itself. everybody lies. you even lie to yourself. again, like I said, you have not done your research thoroughly enough to even understand yourself let alone God.
Quote:
I have no desire to steal because I trust in the equation of "A day's work for a day's wage" and earned wages come with peace and pride, a bonus I like... plus, I also don't want others to steal from me. I have no interest whatsoever in even hurting another let alone taking a life, unless mine is directly at stake. So I really don't need the threat of eternal suffering nor to believe in things I know to not be true.
now do you even know what you are doing here? this is you being a self righteous person. because it is by your own doing you make yourself right in what you say and do. by your laws you created for yourself to live by -- and they are not even original and only your laws to live by because even others live by them too.

so who is now playing God? and because you agree to the laws of George Carlin to live by you have made him a god that you believe in. with just three simple laws that do not completely encompass love itself. it still holds to the human nature of selfishness. do not forget that by them three laws it is still ok to rape someone ... that is not stealing or lying or killing anyone. see how great your ways are?

Quote:
Now that I have written this down it becomes clearer that the reason we are oil and water is because you trust in YOUR interpretation of ancient text and I do not indulge it or my own desires to see the world as I wish.
that is a lie. you are already indulging in your own desires to see the world as you want to see it, as you wish to see it. everything you believe in is due to your desires to fulfill that need to believe in something.

again, you have not done your research thoroughly enough to even understand yourself let alone God.


Quote:

I have to test things till they make sense to me and as much good as I can find in the Christian Bible,
you obviously have not put the laws of Jesus who is God made flesh to the test. therefore I make a clam that you again have lied in stating you have to test things until they make sense to you. Implying this is how you live your life, and you obviously gave up before it made sense to you. While still holding to two laws that are Gods. not to steal and not to kill.


I leave the rest alone and will not comment on it due to your misconception and lack of understanding of your own self.
Quote:


as a whole it is at best a novel, an artifact of a much, much earlier time. To my way of thinking you and others like you conveniently ignore contradictions and downright impossibilities in that text and in fact "cherry pick" and spin to arrive at a whole you can live with. I not only consider that utterly futile but in direct violation of using what you see as the gifts you have been given to their highest potential.

Quote:

Please understand I am not admonishing you or trying to hurt you with my words. I am human and as is so recently obvious, can get frustrated and become a bit harsh but that has been slight and rare, as that is not my purpose. I'm just trying to describe the view from my property... and perhaps, ultimately make a case for Religions to stop killing what they view as heathens, non-believers, infidels, whatever label is used for those who disagree. That makes no sense to me and threatens us all.
I changed my mind on that last statement about Religion killing others. Religion does not kill people - people kill people.

if ones beliefs says to kill them that do not agree with them then even that which is not considered a Religion too can be said at fault.

My Religion states to not kill.

“Thou shalt not kill.” ...

so you cannot state that about Christianity. only the people that use their free will to kill another and still state that they are Christians they too will have to do as even you stated.
"we have Free Will and rightly must take responsibility for our choices"

They that go against Gods will and still say they are Christians are not actually being christian so that is just them that do such things lying about what they really are. its called a wolf in sheep's clothing. them that still do what is not suppose to be done and are working on it. they then are doing just that, working on it. no one is without fault no one until such a time is reached by the standards of God are a saint.

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
and
righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

and God says,

Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

again it is because of your over generalizations, and reading into (everything?) and drawing conclusions to things you do not even understand completely you fail to see the truth.

Last edited by BW-userx; 06-20-2017 at 03:46 PM.
 
  


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