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View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 168 28.77%
Deist 18 3.08%
Theist 23 3.94%
Agnostic 120 20.55%
Atheist 255 43.66%
Voters: 584. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-08-2009, 03:21 AM   #676
yonnieboy
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Well put. Interesting that fanatics use computers. The same science that makes computers possible is based on the same science that allows us to study DNA, evolution, age of rocks, age of bone fragments, etc... . If the science is so wrong, why do computers work? Can you pile gravel from your driveway and use it to build a computer? Your TV? Your car? No, you have to use science to make the components. The closest thing to a god in the universe is a sun, because suns are the source for the chemistries that we are made from. I kind of like Odin because he gave up an eye for wisdom.
 
Old 02-08-2009, 05:37 AM   #677
ProtoformX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yonnieboy View Post
Well put. Interesting that fanatics use computers. The same science that makes computers possible is based on the same science that allows us to study DNA, evolution, age of rocks, age of bone fragments, etc... . If the science is so wrong, why do computers work? Can you pile gravel from your driveway and use it to build a computer? Your TV? Your car? No, you have to use science to make the components. The closest thing to a god in the universe is a sun, because suns are the source for the chemistries that we are made from. I kind of like Odin because he gave up an eye for wisdom.
Even then, the sun is just more science, its a collapsed star that everything in our solar system rotates around and in about 5 billion years it will enter "really hot mode" aka the hydrogen will be gone and it will start using the helium its making, this will enlarge the sun which will either burn everything on earth to a crisp or just dry up all the water stopping all life on earth completely due to lack of water which will also weaken the atmosphere until there is nothing left.
 
Old 02-08-2009, 05:50 AM   #678
brianL
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Only five billion years left? Just enough time to get Gentoo up and running.
 
Old 02-08-2009, 01:59 PM   #679
sparker
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Even if somehow evolution was proven wrong, this would not be evidence for the existence of god.
 
Old 02-08-2009, 04:31 PM   #680
jay73
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And even if it is right, it does not entail the non-existence of God. The worst that can happen is that certain representations of God go down the gutter. That is something completely different. Besides, "existence" is a scientific term and as such utterly inadequate to address the issue of God, just as it would be inaccurate to speak of mathematics in terms of existence. Mathematics does not exist - ever spotted any ones or threes in the wild? The real issue is whether it is real, consistent, etc.

Last edited by jay73; 02-08-2009 at 04:38 PM.
 
Old 02-08-2009, 05:43 PM   #681
entz
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ah folks know what ?

if you want to know whether there is a god or not that answers all your prayers..bla bla.

then do the following experiment:

Put yourself in a troublesome position , let's say tie yourself on a railway or put yourself in a cage next to a lion ..etc

then pray TO GOD ....WOW

now if you get saved from the train or from the lion then god exists !.
of course it could be coincidence (assuming you got saved)

So to get up with factual evidence , do a statistic and compare it against something else ..For example:

What is the chance that you might get saved from a train or the lion

if you Pray.....TO a JUG of MILK......WOW

now if you get saved too by praying to the jug of milk , then this
means that praying to GOd or anything else like a jug of milk for example
has absolutely nothing to do whether you get saved or not..

It's just a coincidence.

www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/

for more info on the subject of God
 
Old 02-08-2009, 07:06 PM   #682
Jeebizz
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Maybe that last example was a bit too out there, but if for the sake of argument there is a god, and all those pro-life folks don't want to remove the feeding tube of patients that have been in a coma over a prolonged period of time (over 5+ years), why hasn't 'god' intervened in either waking said person, or releasing him/her by ending that persons life himself? Again I point towards the article from the BBC I posted in a different thread but I think quite relevant to this thread as well, about the Italian woman being in a coma for 17 years now. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7875528.stm Don't you think that 'god' or whatever would have intervened by now and done SOMETHING!?

I mean she is being kept alive because some nonsensical religious doctrine forbids the ending of her suffering and being left in the state she is in, and somehow we are all just supposed to wait if she ever comes out of it, or must die on her own without intervention. These are also the same people that are using a machine that is keeping her alive, and all of the sudden REJECT clear evidence given by trained DOCTORS (REAL DOCTORS, NOT WITCH DOCTORS) that THERE IS NOT CHANCE that she will EVER come out of it, but they insist that it is somehow better to keep her alive! Who cares about dignity, as long as they prefer to keep their twisted belief that it is actually morally acceptable because some antiquated piece of literature tells them that they cannot end a person's suffering themselves, only a mystical being can do that!

Last edited by Jeebizz; 02-08-2009 at 07:08 PM.
 
Old 02-09-2009, 08:01 AM   #683
easuter
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Quote:
why hasn't 'god' intervened in either waking said person, or releasing him/her by ending that persons life himself? Again I point towards the article from the BBC I posted in a different thread but I think quite relevant to this thread as well, about the Italian woman being in a coma for 17 years now. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7875528.stm Don't you think that 'god' or whatever would have intervened by now and done SOMETHING!?
The answer I get when I ask something similar is that its gods decision or its gods will orwe cant apply our morality/logic to god.

This comes to mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY7PQ...eature=channel
 
Old 02-09-2009, 09:58 AM   #684
rsciw
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must say, I'm quite surprised that in a technical environment (such as this linux board is) there are so many religious believers O_o
 
Old 02-09-2009, 10:22 AM   #685
ErV
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It is really bad that someone unearthed this thread. Funny, I was sure this thing was closed after last flurry of arguments.

One thing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
Don't you think that 'god' or whatever would have intervened by now and done SOMETHING!?
I'm neither atheist nor believer in some deity. However, I think this argument isn't quite correct. Imagine that you are omnipotent almighty deity (not that hard to imagine, really). You are immortal, you created entire universe, and it is in your power to do everything. And you can probably destroy entire universe by single thought within a split second. Now remember, that universe is infinite. There are a lot of planets. They might have other life forms. Why should deity bother with one individual from billions of creatures on Earth which is one of infinite number of planets? Or if this example went a bit too far, imagine, that ants has declared you their god. Compared to ant you are incredibly powerful. To an ant you seem immortal. However, how much time it will take for them to bring your attention to their ant problems? They are microscopic to you. Would you listen to them?
 
Old 02-09-2009, 11:27 AM   #686
XavierP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErV View Post
I'm neither atheist nor believer in some deity. However, I think this argument isn't quite correct. Imagine that you are omnipotent almighty deity (not that hard to imagine, really). You are immortal, you created entire universe, and it is in your power to do everything. And you can probably destroy entire universe by single thought within a split second. Now remember, that universe is infinite. There are a lot of planets. They might have other life forms. Why should deity bother with one individual from billions of creatures on Earth which is one of infinite number of planets? Or if this example went a bit too far, imagine, that ants has declared you their god. Compared to ant you are incredibly powerful. To an ant you seem immortal. However, how much time it will take for them to bring your attention to their ant problems? They are microscopic to you. Would you listen to them?
Which is fine if you don't spend 6000 years telling the people of a particular world that they are extra special and you will always look after them. If you tell your chosen people that they are on their own, no problem though.

God can't have it both ways: we're either equally as important as the ant or we're paramount in his thoughts. And he needs to act consistently - smite the unbelievers and help the believers or ignore everyone equally.
 
Old 02-09-2009, 12:36 PM   #687
jay73
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Quote:
if you don't spend 6000 years telling the people of a particular world that they are extra special and you will always look after them
Maybe we read a different book, but that is not what the Old Testament says. The first part is true but the second part is only conditional as The OT hinges on covenants. Covenants are valid only inasmuch as they are not broken by man.

Quote:
God can't have it both ways
And so this claim is unfounded. And if it were not, it would only lead to aporia. If God is a supreme being, than God is supremely free. However, if God needs to submit to man's convictions, then that freedom is only an illusion and the God concept become untenable.

Quote:
And he needs to act consistently - smite the unbelievers and help the believers or ignore everyone equally.
Same problem. And this claim, too, has no foundation in anything written in the OT, which has numous examples of people being smitten for posing as true believers and saving the "wicked" because their acts are on the whole beneficial (to mention just one example, the story of King David in 2 Samuel). And I won't even go into the complexities of Deuteronomy, which states that retribution does not affect the current generation but their descendants. To the superficial reader, this must look extremely confusing but that is only because superficial readings produce only first impressions.

As for those Italian conservatives, they need to stop whining. Why don't they pass laws to forbid anyone being kept alive like that? Surely what God takes man should relinquish?

Last edited by jay73; 02-09-2009 at 12:42 PM.
 
Old 02-09-2009, 01:55 PM   #688
jstephens84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixellany View Post
"Your religion is none of my business"---my most common reply when someone comes to the door promoting their particular faith. Many people--myself included--do not choose to discuss their religion outside their circle of family and friends. Your poll does not provide for this group.
* nods head * - Two things never to talk about outside friends and family, politics and religion. Too many people can't have healthy debates about their faith and political stance without resorting to being belligerent or just down right rude.
 
Old 02-09-2009, 03:14 PM   #689
entz
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Originally Posted by rsciw View Post
must say, I'm quite surprised that in a technical environment (such as this linux board is) there are so many religious believers O_o

NO there aren't so many "believers" in here as you might initially come to think!

By reviewing the history of this thread , you can come to the conclusion that only a handful of individuals , who have been literally nagging and bickering about the subject , are the sole reason why this "GOD" thread had received all this attention.

so yes this thread is overestimated , and doesn't reflect the majority of opinions in this technical forum.

so basically we have around 10 let's say 15 users who had posted regularly .
now assuming that those 15 users had made 15 posts each , that would be total of 225 posts...

now if every posts gets at least one response then you would end having around 500-600 posts which is quite close to the actual number.

and then comes the factor , were when a thread becomes hot then suddenly everybody has something to say about it !

my recommendation : bury this!

cheers
 
Old 02-09-2009, 04:04 PM   #690
FlGator81
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I don't do religion. I picked agnostic because I don't know or care whether God exists or not.

However, ethics are important to me (e.g. integrity, honesty, commitment, etc). I don't associate any particular morals or values with any religion, but have had trouble meeting people who 1) have an opinion about religion similar to mine, and 2) are not liars, drunks, follow some bizarre (usually extreme left or right) political persuasion, or are a combination thereof.
 
  


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