LinuxQuestions.org
Visit Jeremy's Blog.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 225 29.92%
Deist 23 3.06%
Theist 29 3.86%
Agnostic 148 19.68%
Atheist 327 43.48%
Voters: 752. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 06-19-2016, 08:38 AM   #6571
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US( + travel,) Earth&Mars (I wish,) END BORDER$!◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that work on freest-HW; has been KDE, CLI, Novena-SBC but open.. http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 4,888
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567

Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts...
 
Old 06-19-2016, 11:42 AM   #6572
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,776

Rep: Reputation: 4425Reputation: 4425Reputation: 4425Reputation: 4425Reputation: 4425Reputation: 4425Reputation: 4425Reputation: 4425Reputation: 4425Reputation: 4425Reputation: 4425
Turtles all the way down!

To deny Evolution after the literally countless observations, experiments, and immense scrutiny and discoveries, any one of which could have "thrown the whole thing out the window" but instead support and expand on it, is just as foolish as denying the Earth revolves around the Sun or that a super massive black hole resides at the center of our Galaxy and indeed most galaxies. Agnosticism about the beginning of life is sheer stubbornness and the denial that anything can be known unless one sees it with one's own eyes. It totally denies the concept and efficacy of abstraction and probability. Is it more likely that life began because that's what organic components do under certain conditions that include liquid water as a medium, or because of The Word of some supernatural being?
 
Old 06-19-2016, 11:47 AM   #6573
malekmustaq
Senior Member
 
Registered: Dec 2008
Location: root
Distribution: Slackware & BSD
Posts: 1,669

Rep: Reputation: 498Reputation: 498Reputation: 498Reputation: 498Reputation: 498
Quote:
I'm responding to you because I'd like to know what you meant,
It means I am enjoying the war of wits.
 
Old 06-19-2016, 11:58 AM   #6574
OregonJim
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2016
Posts: 98

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
To deny Evolution after the literally countless observations, experiments, and immense scrutiny and discoveries, any one of which could have "thrown the whole thing out the window"
What a (grossly) deceiving statement.

The scientific method is useless for "proving the past". For that, forensic evidence is needed (and we have very little compared to what we should have). You cannot "disprove" nor "prove" the deceptive theory, because it relies entirely on speculation, not true science. Therefore, finding something to "throw the whole thing out the window" is a red herring.

Further, "evolution" is an umbrella term that covers a large number of ideas. There is no one thing called "evolution", which makes your statement all the more meaningless. Of course, there are some ideas that fall under the evolution umbrella which are obvious and true - like environmental adaptation - but those things do not collectively define evolution.

"Literally countless" is another red herring (and an inaccurate one at that). The flat earth theory was accepted for many centuries before being disproved. Evolution is an infant theory by comparison, and will eventually suffer the same fate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Is it more likely that life began because that's what organic components do under certain conditions
HAHAHAHA!!! Tell me - when has anyone, at any time, created life under ANY conditions? Obviously, if this happened eons ago "by accident", we should be able to reproduce a similar event in the laboratory. Wild, unfounded speculation (again), as you have NOTHING to support such a claim!

Further, "organic components" are, by definition, derived from life and did not exist before life - catch 22. For evolution to work, life must have been created from inorganic components.

Last edited by OregonJim; 06-19-2016 at 12:43 PM.
 
Old 06-19-2016, 12:11 PM   #6575
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US( + travel,) Earth&Mars (I wish,) END BORDER$!◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that work on freest-HW; has been KDE, CLI, Novena-SBC but open.. http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 4,888
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by malekmustaq View Post
It means I am enjoying the war of wits.
Or not.
 
Old 06-19-2016, 12:22 PM   #6576
alberich
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2016
Location: Bavaria
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 140

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
War of wits?

Where did you see any wit?
 
Old 06-19-2016, 01:48 PM   #6577
Celtic Yokel
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2013
Location: Knighton, Powys, Mid Wales
Distribution: Linux Mint
Posts: 41

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
This thread is addictive! There's been a lot of rhetoric that I consider to be nonsense, or makes no sense (and I'm not going to look for quotes to back-up my opinion), but I can't keep away ......... sad or what?
Alberich, there's no wit; it's far too serious for humour :-)

Last edited by Celtic Yokel; 06-19-2016 at 01:50 PM. Reason: corrections
 
Old 06-19-2016, 05:38 PM   #6578
ntubski
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Distribution: Debian, Arch
Posts: 3,774

Rep: Reputation: 2081Reputation: 2081Reputation: 2081Reputation: 2081Reputation: 2081Reputation: 2081Reputation: 2081Reputation: 2081Reputation: 2081Reputation: 2081Reputation: 2081
Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonJim View Post
Further, "organic components" are, by definition, derived from life and did not exist before life - catch 22.
I was under the impression that "organic components" means things composed of organic compounds.
Quote:
An organic compound is any member of a large class of gaseous, liquid, or solid chemical compounds whose molecules contain carbon. For historical reasons discussed below, a few types of carbon-containing compounds, such as carbides, carbonates, simple oxides of carbon (such as CO and CO2), and cyanides are considered inorganic.[1] The distinction between organic and inorganic carbon compounds, while "useful in organizing the vast subject of chemistry... is somewhat arbitrary".[2]
This may obviously exist without life.
 
Old 06-19-2016, 05:43 PM   #6579
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US( + travel,) Earth&Mars (I wish,) END BORDER$!◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that work on freest-HW; has been KDE, CLI, Novena-SBC but open.. http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 4,888
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567
Can someone explain how each generation gets smarter (not wiser until dawn) as we get new tech, if not through evolution?
 
Old 06-19-2016, 06:09 PM   #6580
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US( + travel,) Earth&Mars (I wish,) END BORDER$!◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that work on freest-HW; has been KDE, CLI, Novena-SBC but open.. http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 4,888
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567
Exclamation

Edit: wrong quote... http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post5563324

You may fear it most of all but humanity will create life through technology. How's the brain work? Let's do it... e.g: http://www.kdnuggets.com/2016/02/top...ughs-2015.html δδδ

Last edited by jamison20000e; 06-19-2016 at 06:14 PM.
 
Old 06-19-2016, 06:55 PM   #6581
Smokey_justme
Member
 
Registered: Oct 2009
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 534

Rep: Reputation: 203Reputation: 203Reputation: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonJim View Post
What a (grossly) deceiving statement.

The scientific method is useless for "proving the past". For that, forensic evidence is needed (and we have very little compared to what we should have). You cannot "disprove" nor "prove" the deceptive theory, because it relies entirely on speculation, not true science. Therefore, finding something to "throw the whole thing out the window" is a red herring.

Further, "evolution" is an umbrella term that covers a large number of ideas. There is no one thing called "evolution", which makes your statement all the more meaningless. Of course, there are some ideas that fall under the evolution umbrella which are obvious and true - like environmental adaptation - but those things do not collectively define evolution.

"Literally countless" is another red herring (and an inaccurate one at that). The flat earth theory was accepted for many centuries before being disproved. Evolution is an infant theory by comparison, and will eventually suffer the same fate.



HAHAHAHA!!! Tell me - when has anyone, at any time, created life under ANY conditions? Obviously, if this happened eons ago "by accident", we should be able to reproduce a similar event in the laboratory. Wild, unfounded speculation (again), as you have NOTHING to support such a claim!

Further, "organic components" are, by definition, derived from life and did not exist before life - catch 22. For evolution to work, life must have been created from inorganic components.
Actually, evolution just started as a theory long ago and has been prooven by now.. The red herring is saying that it tries to proove the past since evolution is not just about yesterday, but it's about a biological process that will forever be valid (thus it can be validaded by a number of scientific methods, some of which are pretty new -- like DNA science) ... What you are thinking about is just the evolution timeline (which still is not speculation, rather intelligent assumptions based on existing evidences)...

Also, your comparation with the "flat earth" theory is not valid. That theory was not supported by any real facts, just by the inability of people to perceive a space in which their straight road was actually a bit rounded. The "flat earth" theory is a good comparation to the "God created Earth" theory where people are unable to perceive that life and, specially, human life is just the result of a million years of biological changes that may just very well started from almost nothing.
The problem here is that while life on Earth might have started from "nothing" here or might have started from compounds brought by asteroids hitting the Earth or even started as alien experimentation (really, there is no ideea too absurd and they all are just theories).. Either ways there are still questions about how initial life has started and how the universe was created... This is where our brains try to pick the easiest way out and simply say "God created it"... I do belive that if we don't become extint in the meantime, we will find the answers to those questions and then they'll seem as easy to accept and as logical as it is today to accept the Earth is round..
 
Old 06-19-2016, 08:14 PM   #6582
OregonJim
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2016
Posts: 98

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
Can someone explain how each generation gets smarter (not wiser until dawn) as we get new tech, if not through evolution?
Who says we get "smarter"? We acquire more accumulated "knowledge" over time - that has nothing to do with intelligence. We are actually getting "dumber" over the long term.
 
Old 06-19-2016, 08:14 PM   #6583
OregonJim
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2016
Posts: 98

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey_justme View Post
Actually, evolution just started as a theory long ago and has been prooven by now.. [...] + other stuff...
Sorry, but that is just plain wrong.
 
Old 06-19-2016, 08:21 PM   #6584
OregonJim
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2016
Posts: 98

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntubski View Post
I was under the impression that "organic components" means things composed of organic compounds.
Quote:
ORGANIC:
1. noting or pertaining to a class of chemical compounds that formerly comprised only those existing in or derived from plants or animals, but that now includes all other compounds of carbon.
2. characteristic of, pertaining to, or derived from living organisms :
organic remains found in rocks.
3. of or relating to an organ or the organs of an animal, plant, or fungus.
4. of, relating to, or affecting living tissue:
organic pathology.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/organic

Note that science has changed its definition of the term "organic" several times - the most recent one rather arbitrarily includes anything that is carbon-based. Convenient, isn't it? Doesn't change my original assertion, however.

Last edited by OregonJim; 06-19-2016 at 08:24 PM.
 
Old 06-19-2016, 08:22 PM   #6585
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US( + travel,) Earth&Mars (I wish,) END BORDER$!◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that work on freest-HW; has been KDE, CLI, Novena-SBC but open.. http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 4,888
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567Reputation: 1567
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonJim View Post
Who says we get "smarter"? We acquire more accumulated "knowledge" over time - that has nothing to do with intelligence. We are actually getting "dumber" over the long term.
O ye, of little faith; accumulated "knowledge is smarter, with faster guns? Wouldn't you agree!

Last edited by jamison20000e; 06-19-2016 at 08:23 PM.
 
  


Reply

Tags
bible, censorship, christ, christian, determinism, education, faith, free will, god, human stupidity, humor, islam, jesus, magic roundabout, mythology, nihilism, peace, pointless, polytheism, poser, quran, religion, virtue, war, zealot


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Religion (no linux in this thread, sorry) Calum General 16 07-11-2016 01:48 PM
The touchpad "tapping" questions answers and solutions mega-thread tommytomthms5 Linux - Laptop and Netbook 4 10-30-2007 06:01 PM
What is your religion? jspenguin General 9 04-25-2004 01:28 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:01 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration