The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by dugan Sure you can. The part that's not true is the "because the majority are of Christian faith" part.

Well I disagree to some extend. There are many Americans who are christians and Catholics while the rest are of other faiths.

Either way, the extremists refer to us as infidels. In the online dictionary infidel is define as
a person who does not believe in religion or who adheres to a religion other than one's own.

The extremists may call us infidels but they also use that term on anyone or any country who doesn't worship their religion.

Originally Posted by initramfs There are many Americans who are christians and Catholics while the rest are of other faiths. Either way, the extremists refer to us as infidels.

I like how you refer to separate groups, with different goals, in multiple countries, that are at war with each other, and who are often mainly fighting against local governments, as a monolithic group that you call "extremists" and that have a single view and a single voice. That is just so cute.

And obviously, there were no world events in the past, oh, three decades that could be informing "their" anger, so obviously their only beef is that Americans are Christian. And the flag burnings you mentioned were not in response to specific events.

When did Catholics become non-Christians?? Christians simply believe in Christ hence Catholics are Christians….

Secondly the people in the middle east don't much like us (Americans) far more because we meddle and exploit than based on religion religion is an excuse. The fact that people even believe anything else shows a failing in the American "news" system. To quote my mother that just left after a two week visit; "I've leaned more about the middle east in the last three days than I've leaned in the last 10 years" all she did was switch news outlets.

When did Catholics become non-Christians?? Christians simply believe in Christ hence Catholics are Christians….

Agreed; in fact it could be argued that since most Americans (from what I've read) believe in some sort of Supreme Being or God but a majority do not acknowledge Christ, that the majority of Americans are not actually Christians, albeit that they might self describe that way.

It just cracks me up (when it doesn't horrify me) when I see the continuance of the pompous, pious nonsense resulting in eternal divisionism that has almost always been an integral part of Religion. Whether it's as mild as excommunication and banishment, as was a major raison d'etre for and a conclusion of the Council of Nicaea (in which the Catholic Holy Trinity was establish as Doctrine) or the torture and murder during many periods, of which The Albigensian Heresy and The Inquisition are only higher profile, (Oh yeah almost forgot to add to "torture and murder", "confiscate their lands and money").

Whether the argument is whether God, The Father is more important than Jesus the Son, how many angels can dance upon the head of a pin, the deciding majority is so convinced of their rightness and righteousness, they can shuffle aside Ten Commandments long enough to rob, torture and kill anyone who disagrees. These same people consider scientists foolish (or vastly worse) for attempting to comprehend natural processes, like Evolution or The Big Bang that actually can be studied from evidence (all the while admitting it is not Truth but just theories that fit the evidence until and unless something better comes along ... incidentally, nobody robbed or killed in the process) while the Self-Righteous argue points that have and CAN HAVE no evidence.

Religion (not individual spirituality, referring to organized, capital "R" Religion, which can apparently easily devolve into an Us vs/ Them mob) gives the illusion of solidity. It is, in fact, utterly whimsical, often contradictory, and it's about time Humanity shed itself of this superstitious claptrap and concentrated on sharing this planet constructively and peaceably.... not that this is at all likely any time soon.

Religion has had well over 2000 years to get it right and has only succeeded in making matters worse. Isn't that long enough? Isn't it time we tried something else? That is a very long Trial Period (pun not exactly intended)

Originally Posted by initramfs I didn't say every existing Muslim hates Americans, notice the ( not all ) I included in my original post. You can't denied there is some truth in this statement. You seen it on TV when they burn the American flag countless of times and chant kill the infidels. Again, this only applies to the extremists only and not the many good Muslims who are peaceful.

Then you should have chosen your words more carefully, and you should have said something like this: «According to what I have been shown on TV, there are a few Muslims who apparently hate the people of the U.S.A. (and/or the governments they have elected) for this and that reason». Of course there are also a few Christians, "Americans" or whatever who hate "the Muslims" after having been shown (by an "American" journalist?) those burning flags: but that's quite a weak argument in order to judge a whole group of people, isn't it?

Regarding the flags, such videos can be staged very easily by anyone wandering around with a camera, just like many other "stories" and "documents" that have been manufactured and broadcasted over the years by the peace-makers war-makers themselves and by the so-called embedded journalists. You might search the web for one of those charts comparing the military expenditures of several countries. Search also for "permanent war economy", it will show interesting results and implications, and probably many reasons for hatred as well, especially for people who are on the wrong and bloody side of the business.

Originally Posted by initramfs Again, this only applies to the extremists only and not the many good Muslims who are peaceful.

I was blown away by the hypocrisy, reductionism and intellectual laziness of this statement. According to this guy, the Muslim world is neatly compartmentalized into "extremists" and "good muslims who are peaceful." Riight.

The many Muslims serving in the armed forces of the US, Britain and Canada, those fighting the War on Terror in allied countries, the allies in Iraq and Afghanistan who fought on the side of the US: all of these would presumably be considered by you to be "good muslims". I would not call them "peaceful". Never mind that that of all the countries with an interest in the Middle East, the United States was one of the the least peaceful of the last twenty years.

Is Atheism adding common sense to the ending of the death penalty and maybe some day war or is it just evolution?
(Old-T, New-T, etc...)
http://www.religionlink.com/source-g...us-groups-say/
http://www.slate.com/articles/health...ment=178253584

Who here has not fantasize about killing in some way? Mind you there are a thousand depictions daily, yes statistically speaking as well,,,

Originally Posted by jamison20000e Who here has not fantasize about killing in some way? Mind you there are a thousand depictions daily, yes statistically speaking as well,,,

Unfortunately I dream about it just about every night it's not exactly pleasant, I don't think anyone fantasizes about it in any real way.

They do... Hollywood\*, video games especially those who haven't "had to" so on? I personally have been lucky enough to grow "old" without getting suckered into doing so, so would rather die than kill!

Originally Posted by dugan I was blown away by the hypocrisy, reductionism and intellectual laziness of this statement. According to this guy, the Muslim world is neatly compartmentalized into "extremists" and "good muslims who are peaceful." Riight. The many Muslims serving in the armed forces of the US, Britain and Canada, those fighting the War on Terror in allied countries, the allies in Iraq and Afghanistan who fought on the side of the US: all of these would presumably be considered by you to be "good muslims". I would not call them "peaceful". Never mind that that of all the countries with an interest in the Middle East, the United States was one of the the least peaceful of the last twenty years.

Islam is a religion and religion still creates exclusions for society. I think I mentioned it once having faith in a deity is not the same as religion. Islam creates just as many exclusions in it's own brand of society as Judaism, Christian-Protestant, and Christian-Catholicism do. The variations differ, but only Islam outright condones murder of the "excluded" aka infidels.

To me religion takes away from the Spirituality and Faith in your chosen deity. I honestly think religion has some place in society such as creating moral standards to aid society and create sane laws for society to benefit mankind but if the religion condones acts that are harmful, then I believe that religion is wrong, and that part of religion needs to go.

Catholics persecuted my belief system long ago, The Gnostic Christians, but I hold no ill will towards them.

Originally Posted by ReaperX7 Islam is a religion and religion still creates exclusions for society. I think I mentioned it once having faith in a deity is not the same as religion. Islam creates just as many exclusions in it's own brand of society as Judaism, Christian-Protestant, and Christian Catholicism do. The variations differ, but only Islam outright condones murder of the "excluded" aka infidels.

While it is very often true that religions create strong and exclusive social patterns (not always, as I've been told that there is at least one place in Africa where different religious groups actively participate to each other's celebrations), it is not true that, as you say, Islam is the "only" religion that "condones murder of the excluded aka infidels".

It is annoying to point to the so-called "Bible" again and again, but that collection of writings is full of massacres and unjust, cruel, even stupid actions allegedly ordered (and condoned) by "God" against the people "he" doesn't like. Moreover, such "orders" have been actively interpreted and followed over the centuries, and still are today in some unfortunate places, and that's not Islam at all: «Give me your land, because it's mine: God said that, it's written here and here, so scram. And don't even try to react with your ridiculous means: if you do you're evil, and I'll destroy you».

People have always tried to justify their own nasty actions by saying that it was some god's will pushing them: I think this is cowardice, period. We've heard such justifications again and again a few years ago, on the "us" side of the business, before a few countries were destroyed once again under the direction of somebody, a self-described "Christian" picked from the Middle Age, who was saying all the time that "God is with Us" (and by the way, almost everyone in the so-called "Western World" followed him obsequiously). If "God" is allegedly with "us" in such circumstances, that undoubtedly means that "he condones the murder of the excluded", as you say, but then "we" are excluding. And the excluded were mostly civilians, like in every war, and of course they had nothing to eat and were called "collateral damage". But of course, when you're fighting against the "devil" everything is permitted, isn't it?

Don't forget that gods and religions can be given weird names like "Democracy", "Freedom", "Free Market", "Infinite Justice", "War on Terror", or anything else which sounds good and is good for "us", that is, the "right" side of the business. Especially if that business is based on a "permanent war economy". Don't get me wrong , but saying that "only Islam condones murder of the excluded aka infidels" is another stale and unjust cliché, because it considers only one tiny part of the really big picture. Also, it inherently justifies gratuitous reactions against an abstract idea of "Islam", which in the actual world is very often represented by some of the poorest and least fortunate people on this planet.

Let's make an example. A few years ago I was flabbergasted when I heard a few people, from a rich and fortunate country, talk about the Muslims as if they were rats: «We have to stop them», they said, «they breed, they will overwhelm and contaminate us, we will lose our culture and freedom». Those people were not nazis, but so-called peaceful Christian "firm believers" who watched the news on TV every night... I didn't ask how they would have stopped "them", but they were perfectly OK with what the so-called "Western World" was doing at that time under the direction of the Middle Age guy. In other words, their "god" was perfectly OK with murdering "excluded" people, as long as the news said it was OK.

So please let's stop with those stinky "us/them" patterns, and let's start spreading some mutual knowledge and understanding, instead of fear, superstition and ridiculous clichés. Let's read some good stuff based on serious research, and let's try to find out and learn why certain things actually happen.

Originally Posted by ReaperX7 To me religion takes away from the Spirituality and Faith in your chosen deity. I honestly think religion has some place in society such as creating moral standards to aid society and create sane laws for society to benefit mankind but if the religion condones acts that are harmful, then I believe that religion is wrong, and that part of religion needs to go.

While it is not necessary at all to be part of a religion in order to hold sound ethical standards, nor it is necessary to believe, even privately, in some kind of "spiritual" or super-natural being, it is true that organized religious groups do very often condition their members to a point where they lose any willingness to think critically and independently. On the other hand, if you believe that somebody holds certain beliefs which you consider to be harmful, and for that reason you feel justified in doing something potentially harmful yourself, because of your beliefs, well, you know what I'm driving at.

All or none; right\true or wrong\false.

Look at the world! We all are responsible and don't see our beliefs responsible, ah monkeys,,,

http://www.amazon.com/The-Porcelain-...der_1571314148