LinuxQuestions.org
View the Most Wanted LQ Wiki articles.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices

View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 168 28.82%
Deist 18 3.09%
Theist 23 3.95%
Agnostic 120 20.58%
Atheist 254 43.57%
Voters: 583. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Search this Thread
Old 02-03-2014, 03:50 PM   #4681
dugan
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Canada
Distribution: distro hopper
Posts: 4,769

Rep: Reputation: 1467Reputation: 1467Reputation: 1467Reputation: 1467Reputation: 1467Reputation: 1467Reputation: 1467Reputation: 1467Reputation: 1467Reputation: 1467

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
Some people live in Twilight Zone.
Yeah, seriously. Even the gangsta rap lip-syncing, skateboard-stunting, marijuana-binging free spirits at my high school were fans of Bill Nye.

Last edited by dugan; 02-03-2014 at 03:57 PM.
 
Old 02-03-2014, 03:52 PM   #4682
brianL
LQ 5k Club
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Oldham, Lancs, England
Distribution: Slackware & Slackware64 14.1
Posts: 7,040
Blog Entries: 52

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
You've never heard of Bill Nye the Science Guy?
No. Don't know if he's ever been on TV over here or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
Yeah, usually people who believe aliens built the pyramids, and Illuminati conspiracies.
 
Old 02-03-2014, 03:53 PM   #4683
TB0ne
Guru
 
Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Distribution: SuSE, RedHat, Slack,CentOS
Posts: 14,769

Rep: Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
And, uhh, tell me, whose his opponent?
There is a scientist and a non-scientist. The non-scientist is entering a battle of wits, but he's apparently unarmed.
Quote:
Laissez faire!
Don't use terms unless you know what they mean. How, exactly, do you apply that term to this thread? And what does the thread title of "Solar Eclipse" have to do with the link you posted??

And didn't you say you were leaving? "Farewell", and all that??
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ow-4175480525/

Didn't you then say we should 'rest assured' that you were only here for technical topics?
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...4/#post5091211

Please...stop trolling this site. If you believe that knob who's going to debate Mr. Nye, that's fine. MANY folks knew about this debate for some time now. And while I don't agree with Dawkins, I can respect his right to his opinion, and know the truth when I hear it. This sums it up nicely:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawkins
"But that is better than supplying the creationists with what they crave: the oxygen of respectability in the world of real science."

Last edited by TB0ne; 02-03-2014 at 03:55 PM.
 
Old 02-03-2014, 04:20 PM   #4684
Jeebizz
Senior Member
 
Registered: May 2004
Distribution: Slackware 14.1 64-bit with multilib
Posts: 2,075

Rep: Reputation: 210Reputation: 210Reputation: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
Good point right there. I am very interested in this debate, only to see Bill Nye just own this Ham character.

Btw , Bill Nye is awesome and I loved watching his show when I was a kid. Too bad my math skills were crap, but he did make science fun and made me curious about it.

I hope he keeps inspiring more younger people to take up engineering fields and learning maths and sciences, otherwise we may as well slip back into the dark ages.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 02-03-2014 at 04:24 PM.
 
Old 02-03-2014, 04:25 PM   #4685
TB0ne
Guru
 
Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Distribution: SuSE, RedHat, Slack,CentOS
Posts: 14,769

Rep: Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614Reputation: 2614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
Good point right there. I am very interested in this debate, only to see Bill Nye just own this Ham character.
Yes, he will, but someone in the comments on that article summed it up nicely:

"Debating creationists is like playing Chess with a Pigeon. They'll knock all the pieces over, crap on the board and then fly off to their flock and declare victory." Which is what normally happens...something will come up that they can't refute and you'll get a non-sequitur type answer that derails everything, or Mr Nye will answer honestly and say "We don't know yet", and presto! "See! They don't have the answers!"

Lather-rinse-repeat. Same story, different troll.
 
Old 02-03-2014, 04:33 PM   #4686
TobiSGD
Moderator
 
Registered: Dec 2009
Location: Hanover, Germany
Distribution: Main: Gentoo Others: What fits the task
Posts: 15,592
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 4047Reputation: 4047Reputation: 4047Reputation: 4047Reputation: 4047Reputation: 4047Reputation: 4047Reputation: 4047Reputation: 4047Reputation: 4047Reputation: 4047
And merged with the Megathread. As a fan of such debates I will definitely look into this one.
 
Old 02-04-2014, 12:08 PM   #4687
Arcane
Member
 
Registered: May 2006
Location: Latvia, Europe
Distribution: random
Posts: 287

Rep: Reputation: 164Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianL View Post
{...}Yeah, usually people who believe aliens built the pyramids, and Illuminati conspiracies.
Who said anything about belief? But if you won't use your curiosity you will never filter BS out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
{...}but he did make science fun and made me curious about it.{...}
Well..i would agree that he makes science fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agdvt9M3NJA
but he is not only one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1t5_iGN0xE
Kinda reminds me of my physics teacher at school who used real life examples and was fun!
 
Old 02-04-2014, 12:28 PM   #4688
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: infinity; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US, Earth
Distribution: any UNIXish that works well on my cheapest with mostly KDE, Xfce, JWM or CLI but open ;-)
Posts: 1,384
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 361Reputation: 361Reputation: 361Reputation: 361
Cool

Didn't take a scientific mind to wright:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Yeah, seriously. Even the gangsta rap lip-syncing, skateboard-stunting, marijuana-binging free spirits at my high school were fans of Bill Nye.
Oh snap did you grow up a hater or just (not to include all) overly religious, (now to all) get out of the box or is it from under the bridge?

(:Edit.)

Last edited by jamison20000e; 02-04-2014 at 08:13 PM.
 
Old 02-04-2014, 01:21 PM   #4689
sundialsvcs
Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 5,401

Rep: Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119
That's funny, the gangsta rap lip-syncing, skateboard-stunting, marijuana-binging free spirits at my high school were pretty nice people.

---

Y'know, you will never change the mind of someone whose mind is already made-up i.e. "closed." Such that I really don't think it does anyone any good to try.

As for me, I embrace both. I'm delighted to have a sense of wonder, of impossible bigness, of unfathomable mysteries the likes of which I know I will never understand. I really don't want a "'small, nice, pocket-sized' God." I don't want to feel like the end of life is reduced to a choice between a heavenly golden carrot or a flaming burning stick. I'm not afraid of "the discovery of geologic time," nor of the important role of evolution, partly because I have always realized that Genesis Chapter 1 is a poem, as well as an allegory. (An earthly sphere covered by water, surrounded by neither sun nor moon nor stars, that somehow nevertheless isn't frozen solid? Comes with the territory. The book is what it is.) And I'm not looking for a substitute "certainty." I have no need nor expectation of "certainty."

Don't give me a simple, easy-to-understand God that is wrapped-up in human concerns and comprehensible by the human mind. I know that "the entire elephant" does not look like that. I'm cool with ... delighted, even ... not to "know." Or even to pretend to. And so I look askance at those who say in so many words that they do. Study the books for what they are ... "books." Embrace them for what they are, not for what they aren't and realistically can't be. If you believe in [a] God, then He isn't limited by books either. Better to admit being a babbling fool about such things than to pretend to be smart. We weren't "there when the foundations of the world were laid." We don't know, and we never will, no matter how hard we try. (And it's okay to try. Just don't get in your fellow-traveler's face about it.)

---
P.S. "Googling around," I encountered this rather interesting and scholarly article :
In the Beginning: Biblical Creation Myths vs. Others Around the Mediterranean.
Enjoy!

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-04-2014 at 01:46 PM.
 
Old 02-04-2014, 01:53 PM   #4690
mostlyharmless
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2008
Distribution: Slackware 14.1 (multilib) with kernel 3.15.5
Posts: 1,548
Blog Entries: 12

Rep: Reputation: 177Reputation: 177
Now THAT is a helpful post, thanks sundialsvcs.
 
Old 02-04-2014, 01:55 PM   #4691
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: infinity; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US, Earth
Distribution: any UNIXish that works well on my cheapest with mostly KDE, Xfce, JWM or CLI but open ;-)
Posts: 1,384
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 361Reputation: 361Reputation: 361Reputation: 361
I don't see differences, religious or not, people grow from there surroundings and mistakes to learn from (or brake free of...) in my opinion science can\is bring a vastly superior education on right from wrong. The poll reflects a tiny span of humanity and when we consider how short our lifespan (even how much we change in it➞) compared to the blink of the eye "back to the start of it all"(—human concept not possible in infinity again IMH↻.) Just look at human history if we learn to teach only "facts," stupidity may fade away?

Last edited by jamison20000e; 02-04-2014 at 01:58 PM.
 
Old 02-04-2014, 04:32 PM   #4692
sundialsvcs
Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 5,401

Rep: Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119Reputation: 1119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
I don't see differences, religious or not, people grow from there surroundings and mistakes to learn from (or brake free of...) in my opinion science can\is bring a vastly superior education on right from wrong.
The risk, of course, is that "science" can become your "substitute religion." Your "substitute source of 'certainty.'" (I'm using the word "you" in an impersonal sense, BTW ...) I think that it is entirely reasonable to think that people do want to know "for certain," and if they reject religion as a source, they might embrace science instead.

But ... "science" is very limited, too. It's just a different production of human observation. It, too, cannot answer the Eternal Questions. "Scientific philosophy" pursuits can explore a conjecture, say, that "evolution is the 'origin of [all] species' (and everything else)," and maybe it can do so without encountering demonstrable contra-indications (at least as seen by the philosopher in question), but is that ... Truth? Well, no. It can't be. You can push beyond the limits of science, just as surely as you can push beyond the limits of religion.

"Scientific philosophy" is an excellent tool for organizing conjecture ... for exploring where the limits of "what we know" do or don't (or rather, could or couldn't) be. But people who don't understand the ground-rules of this exercise mistake "the absence of apparent contra-indication" for "therefore, proof that The Answer does lie in that particular direction or conclusion." It doesn't. I personally suspect that Charles Darwin discovered part of a very important finding but probably not all of it. That he probably did identify "The Origin of Species," but not necessarily also "Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order ... etc." (And note that he never said that he did.) (A system for self-adaptation makes sense, and can be observed. But an avenue across the major boundaries between life-form types? I doubt it. I suspect that a preventive mechanism exists in biology, even if we haven't identified it yet.) Yet, until that future discovery is made, and if it is made, we won't "Know."

Either way, I think, we're stuck with not having our "certainty." We can "know" with a little-K, but I think we're simply stuck short of the big-K "Know" that we all want. The Eternal Questions ... Answered. And placed into a tidy, tiny box.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-04-2014 at 04:40 PM.
 
Old 02-04-2014, 04:45 PM   #4693
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: infinity; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US, Earth
Distribution: any UNIXish that works well on my cheapest with mostly KDE, Xfce, JWM or CLI but open ;-)
Posts: 1,384
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 361Reputation: 361Reputation: 361Reputation: 361
My religion (science be damned LOL) proves to me that facts change like religions and people, it maybe the only thing we can be sure of. But, if it defies common sense; real problem is define common sense, can religion or science do this better? One has an actually defined "teaching" the other preaching... I say let the "The Eternal Questions" go but $$$, tradition and power!?.

"A nation is a group of persons united by the common error of their ancestry and a common dislike of their neighbors." -Karl W. Deutsch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_is...#Forgetfulness

:Edit\add: had to go to my part time job so now that I'm back here are edits and a new thought...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 02-04-2014 at 08:51 PM.
 
Old 02-04-2014, 08:51 PM   #4694
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: infinity; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US, Earth
Distribution: any UNIXish that works well on my cheapest with mostly KDE, Xfce, JWM or CLI but open ;-)
Posts: 1,384
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 361Reputation: 361Reputation: 361Reputation: 361
Problem is common sense ain't common. (E.g:)

Should we have a death penalty circling the idea that killing (or vengeance) is OK in some ways, in turn keeping the root problems that lead back to "needing" capital murder? (&c...)

It would it be better to do away with all religions, tradition and nations as ("unimaginable tracks of) time" will do it anyway.
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▓██████▓▓▓░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░░░░░█████▓▓█████████▓░░░░░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░░█████▓░░▓█████████████░░░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░▓███▓░░░▓█████████████████░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░███▓░░░░░███████████████████▓░░░░░
░░░░░░███░░░░░░██████████████████████░░░░
░░░░░███░░░░░░░███████████████████████░░░
░░░░███░░░░░░░░███████░░░░██████████▓█▓░░
░░░███▓░░░░░░░░███████░░░░▓██████████▓█░░
░░▓███░░░░░░░░░░██████▓░░▓███████████▓██░
░░████░░░░░░░░░░▓████████████████████▓▓█░
░▓█░█▓░░░░░░░░░░░░████████████████████░██
░██░█░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▓██████████████████░██
░█▓░█░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▓███████████████░▓█
▓█▓░█▓░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░██████████████░░█
██░░██░░░░░░░░░░░▓▓░░░░░░▓████████████░░█
██░▓░█░░░░░░░░░░████▓░░░░░███████████▓░░█
██░█░██░░░░░░░░▓█████░░░░░░██████████░░▓█
██░▓█░██░░░░░░░░████▓░░░░░░█████████░░▓▓█
▓█░░█░░█▓░░░░░░░░▓▓░░░░░░░░████████▓░░▓██
░█░░█▓░▓██░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░███████▓░░█▓█▓
░██░███████▓░░░░░░░░░░░░░░██████████▓█▓█░
░▓█░██▓░░░▓███░░░░░░░░░░▓██████▓░░░▓██▓█░
░░███▓░░░░░░░███████████████▓░░░░░░░░██▓░
░░░██░░▓▓█▓▓▓░░░▓████████▓░░░░▓▓█▓▓░░██░░
░░░▓█░████████▓░░░░░░░░░░░░▓████████░▓█░░
░░░█▓▓███████████░░░░░░░░████████████░█▓░
░░░█░█████████████░░░░░░█████████████░██░
░░▓█░▓████████████░░░░░░█████████████░░█░
░░▓█░▓▓███████████░░░░░░███████████▓▓░░█░
░░▓█░░░▓█████████░░░░░░░░█████████▓░░░░█░
░░░█▓░░░████████░░░░░░░░░░████████░░░░██░
░░░██░░░░░█████░░░░████░░░░█████▓░░░░░█▓░
░░░░██░░░░░░░░░░░░██████░░░░░░░░░░▓░░██░░
░░░░▓████▓░░░░░░░░███▓██▓░░░░░░░░█████░░░
░░░░░▓█▓████▓░░░░░██░▓▓██░░░░▓████░██░░░░
░░░░░░░░▓█▓██░▓░░░██▓▓▓██░░█▓█████░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░▓█░███▓░░░▓▓▓░▓░░░░░█▓██▓█░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░▓█░██▓░░▓░░░░░░░░░▓░███▓▓█░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░▓█░███▓███▓░░░░░▓███▓██░▓█░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░██░░██░▓░█████████░▓▓█▓░▓█░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░▓█░░▓██▓▓░░▓░█░█░▓░▓██░░░█░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░█▓░░████░▓░░▓░░▓▓███░░░██░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░▓█▓░░████████▓█████░░░██▓░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░░░██░░▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓█░░░██░░░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░░░░██░░▓█████▓██▓░░▓██░░░░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░░░░░██░░░░░▓▓░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░██░░░░░░░░░░██▓░░░░░░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░▓██░░░░░░░░██░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░██████████░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
...I think that it is entirely reasonable to think that people do want to know "for certain," and if they reject religion as a source, they might embrace...
Lottery tickets, alcohol, depression, $, &c,,, learning to enjoy life for all?

Last edited by jamison20000e; 02-04-2014 at 11:31 PM.
 
Old 02-05-2014, 01:15 AM   #4695
Arcane
Member
 
Registered: May 2006
Location: Latvia, Europe
Distribution: random
Posts: 287

Rep: Reputation: 164Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
The risk, of course, is that "science" can become your "substitute religion." Your "substitute source of 'certainty.'" (I'm using the word "you" in an impersonal sense, BTW ...) I think that it is entirely reasonable to think that people do want to know "for certain," and if they reject religion as a source, they might embrace science instead.{...}
Science is just one source for truth same goes for religion but i agree that there are more sources out there. Quest for truth should be main goal for truth-seekers instead regardless of source.
Quote:
Seek truth and you will find a path. ~Frank Slaughter

Last edited by Arcane; 02-05-2014 at 01:16 AM. Reason: typo
 
  


Reply

Tags
bible, censorship, christ, christian, determinism, education, faith, free will, god, human stupidity, humor, islam, jesus, magic roundabout, mythology, nihilism, peace, pointless, polytheism, quran, religion, virtue, war, zealot


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The touchpad "tapping" questions answers and solutions mega-thread tommytomthms5 Linux - Laptop and Netbook 4 10-30-2007 06:01 PM
What is your religion? jspenguin General 9 04-25-2004 01:28 PM
New Religion (no linux in this thread, sorry) Calum General 9 02-13-2003 02:37 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:00 PM.

Main Menu
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
identi.ca: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration