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Old 01-30-2013, 12:50 PM   #4306
Blinker_Fluid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acid_kewpie View Post
There are no consequences from 1 persons perspective, because you are individually insignificant. Just like your vote is irrelevant, and your buying habits.

A god that sends me for hell for living a good life of virtue whether I believe in him or not is a pretty shitty god imho, especially as I could've murdered a whole bag of babies but said sorry and gone to heaven instead.
Sounds like you should sign up with the Mormon's and their degrees of glory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degrees_of_glory
Quote:
The LDS doctrine of the three degrees of glory is also seemingly consistent with a particular reading of Revelation 22:10-11, where John says (text in parenthesis added):

10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand (final judgment).
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still (telestial kingdom): and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still (outer darkness): and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still (terrestrial kingdom): and he that is holy, let him be holy still (celestial kingdom).
I'll leave it up to the reader to decide if that is a religious path they want to pursue, even if you don't follow, it allows for something other than Heaven or Hell and would fit your criteria of not being a "shitty god".
 
Old 01-30-2013, 01:20 PM   #4307
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Originally Posted by acid_kewpie View Post
I think it's not unreasonable to suggest that a large number of believers of all the religions equally don't understand what religion is. And by that I mean the exact same reasons, not mine vs yours.

But you know, we're pretty similar, there are hundreds of gods you don't believe in, I just believe in one less than you. What was wrong with all the other gods out there?
I agree, claimed religion vs actual belief is real. I've visited a lot of churches, it's actually quite interesting from an observer position. Similarities exist and then there are vast differences. I would love to know ties between some of them, for example I went to one, heard a nice presentation and went across town the next week and heard the same presentation. Different names on the churches so I was a little confused. Would this be counted as the same god? Or is it all the same god and different views? Churches with an organ and churches with electric guitars, small quiet churches or large Mega churches, religion takes many forms, it's left to the believer to discern. Sorry rambling about the only thing I got that might make some sense is Matthew 7:21
Quote:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
 
Old 01-30-2013, 02:43 PM   #4308
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I really don't see the point in quoting bible verses at others, apart from reminding me of Johnny Cash's finest tracks. So thanks for that at least. I'll go read Ezekiel 23:20 a few times now.
 
Old 01-30-2013, 05:18 PM   #4309
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I really don't see the point in quoting bible verses at others, apart from reminding me of Johnny Cash's finest tracks. So thanks for that at least. I'll go read Ezekiel 23:20 a few times now.
Johnny Cash should be the patron saint of Country, and laughed at Ezekiel.

Thanks for the laugh.
 
Old 01-30-2013, 08:05 PM   #4310
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I stop when people start to regard their own interpretations, of scant words in a book of highly questionable provenance (from a purely historian perspective), as "God's own truth." Case-in-point above ... take three sentences from a book ... which by the way is only one of a great many "apocalyptic books" known to exist ... and construct an entire belief-system out of it. Then declare that it's God's. Uh huh.

I don't know nuthin' about "God." I'm not gonna suggest to you that I do, not gonna try to make you believe what I do or tell you that you should. (Much less, that "you should, or else.") I think it's poppycock that you're gonna be rewarded with 70 bezillion years of either harp-lessons or hellfire in exchange for give-or-take 70 years of screw-ups.

But, you know, that's just me. Maybe I'm destined to be part of the team that keeps Heaven toasty-warm.

This I do know:

Quote:
"My ways are not your ways .. My thoughts are not your thoughts .. Sux not to be Me .. so, get over it!"
So, I suppose that I am content to be what I am: blind-as-a-bat and totally ignorant of things Eternal, yet very aware that I am so, and otherwise generally harmless and well-intentioned. Yet, if I hear a still small voice in the night, I do try my best to respond to it as Samuel did.

But y'know, I do remember the lyric from that Don Francisco song (about Balaam) ...
Quote:
"So if the Lord is using you, don't pay it any mind / He could have used the dog next door if He'd been so inclined."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 01-30-2013 at 08:13 PM.
 
Old 01-31-2013, 06:42 AM   #4311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid View Post
Quote:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
If I understand this right this kicks anybody out of the race for heaven that does not follow all the rules of your god written down in the Old Testament. Which means if you go to heaven you will be very lonely, no one is following these rules.
 
Old 01-31-2013, 07:34 AM   #4312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
If I understand this right this kicks anybody out of the race for heaven that does not follow all the rules of your god written down in the Old Testament. Which means if you go to heaven you will be very lonely, no one is following these rules.
Crap, I'm fresh out of goats to sacrifice!

But you know full well that according to Genesis 17:19-21 you don't have to pay attention to the Old Testament.

And you know full well that according to Matthew 5:17-18 you definitely do have to pay attention to the Old Testament.
 
Old 01-31-2013, 10:25 AM   #4313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acid_kewpie View Post
Crap, I'm fresh out of goats to sacrifice!

But you know full well that according to Genesis 17:19-21 you don't have to pay attention to the Old Testament.

And you know full well that according to Matthew 5:17-18 you definitely do have to pay attention to the Old Testament.
Yes, I know, I know that Christianity is probably the most self-contradictory religion mankind came up with. Maybe that is why it is so widespread, you can just cherry-pick the things you want for your own religion. Maybe insulting to the Gentoo people, but in that sense one could say Christianity is the Gentoo of religions.
 
Old 01-31-2013, 05:23 PM   #4314
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And to both of you I would simply say this ...

Both of us can surely agree that the Book of Genesis and the Book of Matthew were each written at least five thousand years apart.

And:

Both of those events were at least 1,600 years in the past.

Ergo:

Whatever "eternal truths" you might now be concluding, in the present day, about any confluence (to you...) ...

... about these two opinions, whatever they may be ...

... must be yours.

... (or those of whatever modern-day preacher you may be listening to at the moment.)

---
"My ways are not your ways, saith the LORD. My thoughts are not your thoughts."

Hmmm...

Methinks that the whole situation just got a whole lot more complicated ... and, if I may say, a whole lot more realistic.
 
Old 02-01-2013, 02:17 AM   #4315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
And to both of you I would simply say this ...

Both of us can surely agree that the Book of Genesis and the Book of Matthew were each written at least five thousand years apart.

And:

Both of those events were at least 1,600 years in the past.

Ergo:

Whatever "eternal truths" you might now be concluding, in the present day, about any confluence (to you...) ...

... about these two opinions, whatever they may be ...

... must be yours.

... (or those of whatever modern-day preacher you may be listening to at the moment.)

---
"My ways are not your ways, saith the LORD. My thoughts are not your thoughts."

Hmmm...

Methinks that the whole situation just got a whole lot more complicated ... and, if I may say, a whole lot more realistic.
So you're saying that your religious text *must* be cherry picked to suit your own personal manifesto? Go Westboro Baptists!
 
Old 02-01-2013, 02:43 AM   #4316
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I still say that book is nothing more than a bunch of stoners and or drunks setting around scribing some fairy tale happy(?) ending... for those that follow whatever the leaders at the time believed. To me there is more validity in movies such as men in black. Hell if there were (for example) the 10 commandments written on stone where are they? Surely something as "sacred" as tablets sent down from god would be kept in pristine condition and made available to anyone that would like to see them. Or the gold plates known to Joseph Smith that were miraculously taken back by god himself after he and he alone was able to decipher them... Yeah right! Or shall we consider the wackos in the middle east that would have you believe that if you become a martyr by blowing up as many people as you can, you will receive the 72 virgins in heaven? REALLY? These are just a small number of nutty beliefs I've run across. I'll say this ; IF THERE IS A GOD, HE SURE HAS A WARPED SENSE OF HUMOUR! BTW I almost forgot about the catholic views on things ... Did you ever notice how their churches are always built to a very high degree of opulence when all around them the neighbourhood can be totally decrepit ?? And yet these do not pay taxes except to the Vatican?? Think about it.

Last edited by tiredofbilkyyaforallican; 02-01-2013 at 03:05 AM.
 
Old 02-01-2013, 09:37 AM   #4317
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Politics, sex and religion?

No Thanks, I have a Wife for that.
 
Old 02-01-2013, 11:28 PM   #4318
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Religion relies on a closed system, and constant confirmation bias to justify it's existence.
 
Old 02-03-2013, 12:19 AM   #4319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelc View Post
Religion relies on a closed system, and constant confirmation bias to justify it's existence.
So what is an open system? Followers of this thread have already declared I'm not a scientist so please keep it simple. Confirmation from who (or what?)

If I pray to my deity and feel I get answers does that justify its existence? How often do the religious need confirmation?

If you don't want to believe that's fine, but I feel your statement shows despair. Are you happy making a statement like you have about religion? Does it apply to all religions? What about beliefs? You don't have to be religious to have beliefs. I don't have to pray to a deity to have a belief like I should be honest with my fellow man. So what if I believe there is something after death, why do you care about my motivations? Is this something similar to believers feeling the need to share? Is there such thing as a holier-than-thou atheist?
 
Old 02-03-2013, 12:22 AM   #4320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiredofbilkyyaforallican View Post
I still say that book is nothing more than a bunch of stoners and or drunks setting around scribing some fairy tale happy(?) ending... for those that follow whatever the leaders at the time believed. To me there is more validity in movies such as men in black. Hell if there were (for example) the 10 commandments written on stone where are they? Surely something as "sacred" as tablets sent down from god would be kept in pristine condition and made available to anyone that would like to see them. Or the gold plates known to Joseph Smith that were miraculously taken back by god himself after he and he alone was able to decipher them... Yeah right! Or shall we consider the wackos in the middle east that would have you believe that if you become a martyr by blowing up as many people as you can, you will receive the 72 virgins in heaven? REALLY? These are just a small number of nutty beliefs I've run across. I'll say this ; IF THERE IS A GOD, HE SURE HAS A WARPED SENSE OF HUMOUR! BTW I almost forgot about the catholic views on things ... Did you ever notice how their churches are always built to a very high degree of opulence when all around them the neighbourhood can be totally decrepit ?? And yet these do not pay taxes except to the Vatican?? Think about it.
Thanks for sharing. I truly believe God has a sense of humor. Reminds me of a Futurama episode... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbinE6bx8xM
 
  


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