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View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 168 28.82%
Deist 18 3.09%
Theist 23 3.95%
Agnostic 120 20.58%
Atheist 254 43.57%
Voters: 583. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-10-2007, 04:11 PM   #346
Jeebizz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trickykid
The universe is big, I mean very big. We are only a very small part of it, very small. We are still in our infancy when it comes to technology and intelligence. We are still very barbaric and stupid. Humans are stupid and will hopefully one day learn from their mistakes as intelligent animals.
It makes one wonder, how can a human with such limited intelligence can come up with something as abstract and infinite such as a 'god'. It has to be pure imagination, and no real evidence at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trickykid
We still find new species of animals on a weekly basis. I thought Adam named all known creatures. At least that's what I was taught in Sunday school as a child. And what about dinosaurs?
The whole garden of eden story in the bible bothered me. This to me proved how inconsistent the idea of god was, as well as the contradictions. God is merciful and omnipotent. Therefore, if he foresaw that Eve would be tempted by the snake to eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, he would clearly have been more easy going on Adam and Even. And plus, god forbade Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge. Therefore, didn't god intend man to live in complete ignorance? In that case, educating yourself would be considered a huge sin. Man is supposed to be ignorant, but wait then god gave us the ability to create and learn, which means it came from the tree of knowledge, but god didn't want us to be that way, we are supposed to be unquestioning and ignorant. I'm just looking for some consistency here, something that which religion does not offer!

Again, maybe George Carlin can offer some insight?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzMEEw (Why are we here? PLASTIC!)

Last edited by Jeebizz; 12-10-2007 at 04:13 PM.
 
Old 12-10-2007, 04:24 PM   #347
trickykid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
It makes one wonder, how can a human with such limited intelligence can come up with something as abstract and infinite such as a 'god'. It has to be pure imagination, and no real evidence at all.
Exactly. We have become very creative animals with the brain power we obtained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
The whole garden of eden story in the bible bothered me. This to me proved how inconsistent the idea of god was, as well as the contradictions. God is merciful and omnipotent. Therefore, if he foresaw that Eve would be tempted by the snake to eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, he would clearly have been more easy going on Adam and Even. And plus, god forbade Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge. Therefore, didn't god intend man to live in complete ignorance? In that case, educating yourself would be considered a huge sin. Man is supposed to be ignorant, but wait then god gave us the ability to create and learn, which means it came from the tree of knowledge, but god didn't want us to be that way, we are supposed to be unquestioning and ignorant. I'm just looking for some consistency here, something that which religion does not offer!
Exactly. But everyone knows women never listen..

It's just like that Ned Flanders quote mentioned before.. "I've done everything the Bible says - even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!" Even though it's a fictional character in a cartoon, the Simpson's always express some type of truth in such things which makes it so damn funny.
 
Old 12-10-2007, 04:43 PM   #348
XavierP
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Jay Pinkerton's Back of the Bible highlights some of the odder things about the Old Testament. Hosea is pretty good
 
Old 12-10-2007, 04:48 PM   #349
alred
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animals feeding on animals ... really ... !!



.
 
Old 12-10-2007, 04:54 PM   #350
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Originally Posted by JMJ_coder View Post
Hello,


One is not a god and the other a creature. One is a myth and the other a fallen creature. Satan is not as powerful as God, he is not a 'good guy' who happens to manage a netherworld. He ambitiously wanted to be God, and this sin radically, irrevocably, and unforgivably transformed him into a fallen angel.
Hey, why is my god Hades a myth and satan a real creature The evidence for both is historical narrative. Satan obviously was already a god (of myth). He just wanted to be THE god And Hades may have also been myth, but he was a mythical GOD, much like satan with a different attitude, of course.

The similarities and origins of Satan are obvious. Versions of Satan and the family structure of the gods can been in many ancient religions. The jewish faith did adopt a monotheism way back when, or close enough. They still had Satan.

But christianity went back to polytheism. The people just like it that way I guess. The Catholic faith is the most polytheistic of them all.

I was raised catholic. I know a bit about it
 
Old 12-10-2007, 04:56 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by JMJ_coder View Post
Hello,



You are correct - the word Easter comes from the Teutonic goddess Estre, according to the Venerable Bede. But that is an English word, not a word of the official language of the Church. The official word in the official language is Pascha - which is derived from the Hebrew for the Passover feast.
So they borrowed the pagan easter festival, but named it after a Hebrew festival... okay.

It's still a ripoff...
 
Old 12-10-2007, 04:58 PM   #352
Jeebizz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alred
animals feeding on animals ... really ... !!
Is that such a difficult concept? Man is not an herbivore, but a carnivore mostly. Other animals eat other animals. Wolves eat sheep, deer, etc. Bears eat fish. (So this also invalidates a vegans claim that eating meat is wrong. Lets get a vegan to make a lion stop eating meat, I wonder what the outcome of that will be? ).

This also goes to the idea of man's origin. In most ways, I'm more inclined to believe that we have descended from apes and other types of life forms, rather than just man suddenly appearing on the horizon. I mean evidence alone says it all. Genetic similarities between man and certain types of mammals (monkeys/apes). Something that religion rejects completely. This is why I reject the notion of intelligent design. However I don't think that any form either intelligent design or whatever other theory exists should even be taught at such a low grade level in school, but in universities and such. Its bad enough that young minds are subjected to such BS and not allowed to form their own opinion.
 
Old 12-10-2007, 05:12 PM   #353
trickykid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
This also goes to the idea of man's origin. In most ways, I'm more inclined to believe that we have descended from apes and other types of life forms, rather than just man suddenly appearing on the horizon. I mean evidence alone says it all. Genetic similarities between man and certain types of mammals (monkeys/apes). Something that religion rejects completely. This is why I reject the notion of intelligent design. However I don't think that any form either intelligent design or whatever other theory exists should even be taught at such a low grade level in school, but in universities and such. Its bad enough that young minds are subjected to such BS and not allowed to form their own opinion.
Exactly. I believe in the separation of Church and State. In that regards, to those parents or people that want intelligent design, creationism and or their religion taught to their children or own children in school, that's what private schools are for and do just that. Send them there. The government has no business teaching you what faith to believe in but should teach pure science and theories derived from science and facts we obtain given to us. Don't want them to learn we might have come from apes or learn evolution cause they contradict your belief, I think I just mentioned those private schools. That's how it should be anyways.

Don't get me wrong though. Prayer at school is not a bad thing when it's amongst students who believe in such things. But school led prayers or officials from the school that want a mass prayer during games or pep rallies, etc, should be banned.
 
Old 12-10-2007, 05:19 PM   #354
alred
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you have touch upon parenting ...

ok , just make sure others self interests always come first ... this has to be firmly instilled into young minds ... from here onwards , it depends ... and see how far backward they can go ... they may appear moving forward and backward , backward and forward but at all time dont be too sure about it yet ...



.
 
Old 12-10-2007, 05:19 PM   #355
rsashok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebizz View Post
Is that such a difficult concept? Man is not an herbivore, but a carnivore mostly. Other animals eat other animals. Wolves eat sheep, deer, etc. Bears eat fish. (So this also invalidates a vegans claim that eating meat is wrong. Lets get a vegan to make a lion stop eating meat, I wonder what the outcome of that will be? ).
How about connecting aggression in humans with meat consumption? In the animal kingdom the most benign animals are herbivore - they don't need to kill to eat. Even in human history Hindu, who are vegetarians, never conducted genocidal wars (lets omit the fact that they have nukes now for a chnage). Maybe if we convince Muslims to switch on vegetarian diet (OK, with milk and eggs) they become less aggressive? Plus it will help to solve green-house gas problem: (less meat->less cattle->less methane) + (less meat->more greens->less carbon-dioxide)
 
Old 12-10-2007, 05:29 PM   #356
trickykid
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Originally Posted by rsashok View Post
How about connecting aggression in humans with meat consumption? In the animal kingdom the most benign animals are herbivore - they don't need to kill to eat. Even in human history Hindu, who are vegetarians, never conducted genocidal wars (lets omit the fact that they have nukes now for a chnage). Maybe if we convince Muslims to switch on vegetarian diet (OK, with milk and eggs) they become less aggressive? Plus it will help to solve green-house gas problem: (less meat->less cattle->less methane) + (less meat->more greens->less carbon-dioxide)
Or we can get everyone to switch to a soy based diet so they become gay, well, according to Jim Rutz that's the problem with the gay epidemic..

Instinct is one thing to have, which most animals have. Humans are animals, we have instincts but we also have these new senses called logic and reason. We're not like other animals so that's why most vegans claim it is wrong, for humans, not other animals. I don't think they're out to try and convert lions to eat veggies. That's like when my dad tried to tell me I should feed my snake that had a strict diet of eating mice some crickets or something cause it would save money. It's just not going to happen.

But why don't we keep this on topic though. If we want to talk about vegans, vegetarians and meat eaters, we can start a new thread. It's ok to go off course from main topic but when it takes a total derailing, we should try to revert back quickly.
 
Old 12-10-2007, 05:40 PM   #357
Jeebizz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trickykid
Instinct is one thing to have, which most animals have. Humans are animals, we have instincts but we also have these new senses called logic and reason. We're not like other animals so that's why most vegans claim it is wrong, for humans, not other animals.
Correct. For as long as mankind existed, meat was a primary dietary requirement in order to survive. Sure most will say now that there are alternatives, but I don't buy that. No matter what drug we can synthesize to substitute the benefits of meat, it doesn't compare to the real thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trickykid
But why don't we keep this on topic though. If we want to talk about vegans, vegetarians and meat eaters, we can start a new thread. It's ok to go off course from main topic but when it takes a total derailing, we should try to revert back quickly.
My fault entirely, but I was attempting to connect the idea of man being just another animal in the food-chain. As long as mankind existed, not until recently did he not only have the time, but the capacity to think and ponder in more abstract ways. This is why I still firmly believe that many many years ago, mankind was just trying to survive, therefore the very idea of religion was something not on man's agenda, but just trying to make sure he had food to survive until the next day. As soon as mankind became more advanced, then the idea surfaced, is there something else out there? Thus philosophy and religion entered in. Now that mankind has progressed further, perhaps the role of religion is no longer necessary. It was probably just another means to get mankind by, and now obsolete.

[edit]

Religion would have people believe that man has always been, and not an animal. I was arguing against that, and I can see how it almost derailed the thread though. http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...71#post2986471

Last edited by Jeebizz; 12-10-2007 at 05:45 PM.
 
Old 12-10-2007, 05:53 PM   #358
trickykid
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In all honesty though, the only meat man was meant to eat was small rodents, if even that. If you look at how we are designed, we really have nothing but our minds and the use of tools. Without that, we're dinner for most other things that are hungry. We have no claws, our teeth were made to chew through plants mostly as they're not strong flesh eating, ripping up of dead carcases type teeth. But we are lazy, most are fat, out of shape. With all of our technology and medical achievements and the local grocery store with some opting for the drive thru fast food chain, most humans should not even be alive today cause most wouldn't survive very long.

Take nature for the most part, most animals don't even survive to adulthood. That poor sea turtle has to lay a hundred eggs in hopes that a handful of them will survive long enough so they can lay a few hundred eggs to keep their species alive.
 
Old 12-10-2007, 06:05 PM   #359
truthfatal
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Hello,

It's two separate things. I never said I was presenting a thesis on the subject. But, from the very beginning, a summation of it. Do you know what a summation is?
Yes, and for the third time, I'm asking you to post proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ_coder View Post
It is not mere personal experience. The knowledge of the existence of God is something that is written on the hearts of all men. Of course, it is easy to ignore that voice through our own failings. But, if you listen to your heart, the law is there.
Yes, it is personal experience. Mere personal experience. Even trivial personal experience. There is nothing "written on the hearts" of any men (or women). You claim that through my own "failings" I am ignoring your cosmic dictator. What failings are those precisely? Because I fail to acknowledge something which provides no evidence for itself? that's not a failing. That's called being rational.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ_coder View Post
Where did I ever say three separate entities? I didn't - so don't quote me on something I never said!!!
I apologize if that's the way you interpret things. I was just letting you know how it appeared to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ_coder View Post
If you want to get started on reading something, you can start with this:
Dominus Iesus
Unfortunately that entire document gets rejected, as it is based on teachings of the Bible. The Bible has not been verified as a legitimate historical document as of yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMJ_coder View Post
If you don't even understand the basic concepts (whether you agree with them or not) how do you expect to have any type of fruitful dialogue?
Oh I understand the basic concepts. The problem you're having is that I completely reject them as preposterous and unfounded.
 
Old 12-10-2007, 06:05 PM   #360
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May be faith is an instinct we are born with? You remember when your were a kid you believed in many different things. Then, while growing up you revised your system of believes and came up with whatever you have now. Maybe faith is like sucking your thumb - some never outgrow this instinct making it a habit. Faith and thumb sucking make you feel cozy and safe by making you to believe that you are close to somebody who is going to protect you. Basically, god is a nipple for adults.

Last edited by rsashok; 12-10-2007 at 06:09 PM.
 
  


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