The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by Arcane ...Look at recent events in USA(earthquake, hurricane) - another coincidence or proof that something IS going to happen either this year or next or bit later?

Gee...yeah something's really going to happen next year.

Like my bank's recovery guys gonna chase, find me and kill the $hitt outta me for not paying the rest of the EMI's, they probably won't even care what on earth will happen next or some other year. Huh!

Originally Posted by bluegospel I'm curious kostya, what is your fundamental point of view? Reading some of your posts I assume you are Christian--you believe the Bible?

Since he posted his (obviously evasive) answer, he's posted multiple links to Jehova's Witness' material and made rambling claims about evil conspiracies involving blood transfusions. You can draw your own conclusion from that.

Originally Posted by dugan Since he posted his (obviously evasive) answer, he's posted multiple links to Jehova's Witness' material and made rambling claims about evil conspiracies involving blood transfusions. You can draw your own conclusion from that.

To be fair, the blood transfusion nonsense came from Arcane, not kostya.

But yeah, I loved that part. The blood bank must obviously need a particular blood type in order to cover up some massive crime, because we still solve crimes with blood type information, we have no access to something more unique, like DNA. The fact that one certain blood type can be used universally in all blood recipients can't possibly have anything to do with it.

Originally Posted by SL00b To be fair, the blood transfusion nonsense came from Arcane, not kostya.

* has another look

Kostya, please accept my apologies.

I am an Agnostic. But honestly I don't really think there is any God or higher power. So I am sort of an Atheist.

Originally Posted by SL00b Tell me that two links to the official site of the Jehovah's Witnesses didn't just happen. This explains a lot.

Ah! So you don't believe either that things "just happen" ?

JW are the only Christian group that knows how to explain the Bible so "to put all the pieces together". So I'm not surprised that a few scientists accepted their view and became believers.

...But this wasn't my point.
Since all this discussion is becoming very tiresome, as you people would always say in reply that "this is not what evolution theory says", so CAN YOU GIVE ME ANY GOOD LINKS to some books or other documents, where at last I could see some REAL evidence showing how evolution is the only way we could come here. Or at least WHAT IT REALLY SAYS.

Not these web-published documents summing up what still remains questionable, or just some end-results of that which you say I don't know, but the things on which these are based.
So that if I found flaws in THAT I could point to you and you were not able this time to say "a, but this is not what it says".

That would be both interesting for me and answering reed9's allegation that I "don't want to now nor want to find out".

Originally Posted by kostya Ah! So you don't believe either that things "just happen" ? ...But this wasn't my point. Since all this discussion is becoming very tiresome, as you people would always say in reply that "this is not what evolution theory says", so CAN YOU GIVE ME ANY GOOD LINKS to some books or other documents, where at last I could see some REAL evidence showing how evolution is the only way we could come here. Or at least WHAT IT REALLY SAYS.

Pretty good list.

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Books-Evo.../R6SZF692OH56G

Originally Posted by kostya Since all this discussion is becoming very tiresome, as you people would always say in reply that "this is not what evolution theory says", so CAN YOU GIVE ME ANY GOOD LINKS to some books or other documents, where at last I could see some REAL evidence showing how evolution is the only way we could come here. Or at least WHAT IT REALLY SAYS.

You said earlier that you weren't interested. Glad you changed your mind.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post4442973

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post4442981

Let me also add these two books:
http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Exte.../dp/0262513676
http://www.amazon.com/Nonsense-Stilt.../dp/0226667863

Originally Posted by kostya Ah! So you don't believe either that things "just happen" ?

Yeah, I believe things happen for a reason. I believe you referenced JW resources because you're a JW.

Originally Posted by kostya JW are the only Christian group that knows how to explain the Bible so "to put all the pieces together". So I'm not surprised that a few scientists accepted their view and became believers.

If you want to talk strictly about Christian groups, Catholic biblical scholarship is exponentially more advanced than theirs. Catholic biblical scholarship was so good at one point, the Pope had to ban it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderni...n_Catholicism)

Originally Posted by reed9 Evolution explains how complex systems can arise through non-intelligent, non-random change.

And could you give some links to where this is explained in more detail?
So that I could read THAT and give my remarks.

Cause even now DNA, proteins and other stuff known to science don't make life. Dead bodies contain all that stuff yet they are dead. So the question is how "dead" matter became "live" once. Where did that "life" came from and what is it, to start with?
If evolutionist authors suggest complex processes and reactions that could possibly produce these organic chemicals, then the necessary conditions are of importance.
I never heard that today's chemical technology is as simple and natural a thing, that the same products can just be "naturally produced" in existing "natural" environments. Let alone Except in living creatures in which these marvels happen and, which I hold proof of intelligent Creator (and you don't).
So the experiments known to me suggest precise control of environment in order to obtain the desired result. Where would that control come from in case of evolution?

These are just some preliminary questions for which I expect to find at list "some" answers. But sure enough, those must be truth-like answers, you know. Because I don't need proof to the obvious fact that "it is possible to produce DNA" for example.

And then before I read those books, I must remind you in advance how the possibility/probability of certain things can be "reconstructed" using similar models, so that one can make decision as to how close to reality the theory is.

If ANY of these preliminary questions appear "unscientific" to you, I'll appreciate your corrections as you seem to know better "the ways of science".
But you won't deny, I hope, that before doing a research it is a good thing to make up one's mind as to what one will be searching for. This I have shown.

Originally Posted by dugan * has another look Kostya, please accept my apologies.

Accepted .
I know you're kind folks and mean well.

Originally Posted by kostya Cause even now DNA, proteins and other stuff known to science don't make life. Dead bodies contain all that stuff yet they are dead. So the question is how "dead" matter became "live" once. Where did that "life" came from and what is it, to start with? If evolutionist authors suggest complex processes and reactions that could possibly produce these organic chemicals, then the necessary conditions are of importance. I never heard that today's chemical technology is as simple and natural a thing, that the same products can just be "naturally produced" in existing "natural" environments. Let alone living creatures in which these marvels happen and which I hold proof of intelligent Creator (and you don't). So the experiments known to me suggest precise control of environment in order to obtain the desired result. Where would that control come from in case of evolution?

As for how life emerges from chemical matter, here's a good place to start. Keep in mind, the workings are still being explored: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

As for this "precise control" source... see Earth... although "precise control" seems a bit meaningless once you understand the huge variety of changes the planet has undergone throughout its history. It turns out that life can thrive in a lot more variety of circumstances than we once thought.

Originally Posted by kostya If ANY of these preliminary questions appear "unscientific" to you, I'll appreciate your corrections as you seem to know better "the ways of science". But you won't deny, I hope, that before doing a research it is a good thing to make up one's mind as to what one will be searching for. This I have shown.

No, you've shown the opposite, and doing research with a predetermined outcome in mind is precisely the wrong way to go about it, and is totally anti-scientific. This is at the heart of why you've been wrong about everything you've said so far about evolution. If you're not going to approach the subject with an open mind, and let the evidence take you where it will, then you're wasting your time.

Originally Posted by kostya So the question is how "dead" matter became "live" once. Where did that "life" came from and what is it, to start with?

I think it's worth pointing out that the theory of evolution does not encompass this.

Originally Posted by dugan You said earlier that you weren't interested. Glad you changed your mind.

Cause I can see how my using citations is accepted by you as lack of respect on my part for what is important to you.
This is fair, just as it is irritating to me when people make judgements about the Bible (which I hold important) without ever reading it.