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View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 165 28.75%
Deist 18 3.14%
Theist 23 4.01%
Agnostic 120 20.91%
Atheist 248 43.21%
Voters: 574. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-04-2007, 03:24 PM   #241
trickykid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teabag_46 View Post
At the end of the day, some people need an almighty being to believe in, so they can have something to look forward to - but I don't.
I'd agree. I do have something to look forward to, a comfortable life filled with joy and happiness followed by nothing, just like before I was concieved, I did not exist, when I die, I simply no longer exist in my organic form.

I think the problem with religions or religious people is that they can't fathom the thought that someone who doesn't need to believe in a God(s), believe in a book written by mankind for such God(s), can lead a good moral life without such things telling him to do so.

I'm an atheist. I have a moral understanding of what is right and wrong without a bible or God. I believe my morals that I live up to are probably at equal and even higher standards to some of these so-called believers or religious people. I'm not saying I'm perfect but I know religious people and I know of religious people who don't live by their own standards of their beliefs and that's sort of irritating.
 
Old 12-04-2007, 05:27 PM   #242
jay73
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Quote:
Buddhists, live good life, and you will be reincarnated, 'a level up' ie. closer to 'God'
Not really, no, Buddhism is an atheist religion. And the way you explained it, there is a logical problem: how can you go on being promoted forever? Buddhists only strive to move up the scale to reach the ultimate, i.e. nibbana (nirwana). And nibbana is about as close as you can get to nothingness.

Last edited by jay73; 12-04-2007 at 05:30 PM.
 
Old 12-04-2007, 05:39 PM   #243
Simon Bridge
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Quote:
I beleive in God. That strong Baptist upbringing.
Ah... a believer by default: don't you think for yourself? You gotta cut those apron-strings sometime d00d.

Now me, I am very deeply religious. But the Goddess I follow insists that I mustn't believe in any god(ess)s at all. So I am an Atheist because the Goddess tells me that is what I should be.

Quote:
As of Now:
62 Atheist/Agnostics (Either do not believe or dont have an opinion about what to believe)
29 Religious (Believe in some kind of good or religion)
Is that just votes counted, or have you been taking an informal tally of the posts as well?
Where would you slot a pantheist? What about me? Alred?
 
Old 12-04-2007, 05:57 PM   #244
JMJ_coder
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Hello,

I am a firm believer in the Catholic Faith. I am a Latin Rite Catholic who is faithful to the Holy Father and the Magisterium.


And, I'm vi all the way!
 
Old 12-04-2007, 06:03 PM   #245
Simon Bridge
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Quote:
Not really, no, Buddhism is an atheist religion.
Depends on the specific school of Buddhism. I understand Siddartha taught that there is no God (gods or goddesses or whatever) but many Buddhist teachings since have allowed the existence of other (non-human) sentients and divine beings... and some are positively agnostic in their teachings - allowing for the existence of gods. However, internally, the central teachings do not rely on existence or non existence of gods to work.

The closest you get to gods (of buddhism) would be the buddhas - with the bodhisatvas as their angels. But the closest they get to worship is in the offering of prayers and mantras hoping for their attention. They are "worshipped" as a Catholic "worships" the BVM - as a transcended being capable of supernatural acts of intercession.

Basically, Buddhism is what you get if you have atheism without scientific method.

I like the bit where you don't have to be buddhist to achieve the stated ultimate goal. I think this is practically unique. You are free to live your life as you like, never having heard a single mantra, and you can still transcend.
 
Old 12-04-2007, 06:12 PM   #246
truthfatal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay73 View Post
Not really, no, Buddhism is an atheist religion.
I'm not sure I agree with that. To me, Buddhism seems to be more of a non-theistic religion. Belief in a god figure is neither required, nor forbidden. If it can be utilized to help a person achieve Nirvana, all the better.

:wq
 
Old 12-04-2007, 06:13 PM   #247
Simon Bridge
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Points for discussion:

1. The Atheist and the Theist are the same except that the Atheist rejects one more god than the theist does. If the Theist would first understand why s/he rejects all other gods, then s/he will have some measure of why the Atheist rejects the lot.

2. Most geeks are Atheists because they are weird anyway, enjoy bucking the system, and get an intellectual kick out of tearing down other peoples ideas: it's easier to destroy than build after all.

3. Agnostisism is a copout.

4. Atheists seem to enjoy tearing down the old, medieval, "proofs" of God like the teleological argument. The ones that get taught in religion 101. Theist philosophy has moved on since then.

5. Anyone Truly religious won't respond to a poll like this.
 
Old 12-04-2007, 06:43 PM   #248
rsashok
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I was educating myself on subject of incompleteness and came across following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_argument

You might also want to look at Godel's prove of the ontological argument of God's existence.
 
Old 12-04-2007, 06:44 PM   #249
truthfatal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Bridge View Post
1. The Atheist and the Theist are the same except that the Atheist rejects one more god than the theist does. If the Theist would first understand why s/he rejects all other gods, then s/he will have some measure of why the Atheist rejects the lot.
Agreed. Though that one god creates a seemingly huge difference. I would imagine that the monotheist would have as much trouble imagining no god as I would have imagining one(or more!) god(s).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Bridge View Post
2. Most geeks are Atheists because they are weird anyway, enjoy bucking the system, and get an intellectual kick out of tearing down other peoples ideas: it's easier to destroy than build after all.
This implies that atheism is somehow abnormal, and I can't support that. Non-belief is certainly a minority, but it is not by any means 'weird'. As to 'tearing down other peoples ideas' have you ever asked a young earth creationist what he thinks about Charles Darwin's ideas? I realize that the vast majority of theists do not share such foolish notions as the young earth crowd, but my uneducated guess is that the proportions of both atheists and various religious 'eccentrics' are about equal compared to run of the mill moderate religionists. So the comparison is, in my mind, valid. The question now is, which one do you think should earn the moniker of "weird"? (My answer should be clear on this score )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Bridge View Post
3. Agnostisism is a copout.
I actually disagree on this point, rational agnosticism is in my opinion the only valid stance on the existence of one or more deities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Bridge View Post
4. Atheists seem to enjoy tearing down the old, medieval, "proofs" of God like the teleological argument. The ones that get taught in religion 101. Theist philosophy has moved on since then.
We also enjoy tearing down the theists new and improved arguments, though I rarely see one that hasn't already been thoroughly debunked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Bridge View Post
5. Anyone Truly religious won't respond to a poll like this.
Unless of course, they want to
 
Old 12-04-2007, 07:50 PM   #250
Kittie Rose
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Quote:
I am certainly un-american - I am an Englishman living in New Zealand. You are in an international forum.
Calm down man, it was a joke. I'm pretty unamerican myself, not living in america and all and thinking that american values can be overly simplistic. I'm just pretty sure people don't understand the options.
 
Old 12-04-2007, 08:15 PM   #251
laceupboots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Bridge View Post
Ah... a believer by default: don't you think for yourself? You gotta cut those apron-strings sometime d00d.
No d00d, I believe in God because I have faith, you don't get that by default.

Last edited by laceupboots; 12-04-2007 at 08:17 PM.
 
Old 12-04-2007, 08:47 PM   #252
Sordelka
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Isn't Atheism a form of religion in itself? Isn't believing in nothing is still believing in something? Isn't any form of belief prioritizing some form of strict conduct and education considered religion?
 
Old 12-04-2007, 09:25 PM   #253
Simon Bridge
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Quote:
No d00d, I believe in God because I have faith, you don't get that by default.
Sorry, I thought you cited your upbringing... so you're an xian because you were taught to be?
 
Old 12-04-2007, 09:26 PM   #254
pramka
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Maybe God created Man .... Then .... Man Created God ... and each group says this is the way.
Ego EGo EGO
 
Old 12-04-2007, 09:41 PM   #255
Simon Bridge
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Quote:
Isn't Atheism a form of religion in itself? Isn't believing in nothing is still believing in something?
Define "religion".

In this thread, what is and is not a religion is beside the point. Participants were asked to state their position on a philosophical proposition concerning God.

Atheists do not deny religion, only God. After all, it is possible to have religion without God.

Quote:
Isn't any form of belief prioritizing some form of strict conduct and education considered religion?
"Considered"? By whom? Generally, what counts as religious is cultural. i.e. Buddhists managed to somewhat survive the advent of communism in China by asserting that they were not a religion (in the Marxist use of the word), yet they are considered religious practically everywhere.

The description quoted characterizes pretty much any attempt to govern human affairs en masse. Would you consider your government to be a religion? (Mind you, I've seen USA election rallys...) If we accept "prioritizing education... conduct... etc" as religion, then spelling style is a religion, and insisting on, say, US over English spelling is a form of religious intolerance.

Religion usually involves acts of worship - entreaties to higher powers etc. Thus, buddhist pujas and mantras qualify it for "religion". Where are the atheist prayers?

For more on this:
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/athe...mreligion.html
 
  


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