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firm believer 157 28.19%
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:43 AM   #2326
ShaanAli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SL00b View Post
You're talking to the wrong dude here, because I have in my possession a photograph of a great-great grandfather taken at an old chariot race circa 1908, and he was already fairly advanced in age then.

Apart from the racing chariots in the local county fair, he was probably an unremarkable man. But momentous events leave their stories behind. If we can have physical evidence of the existence of Julius Caesar, why can't we have physical evidence of an otherworldy visitor nearly eight centuries later?
You guys are living in very much advanced country. I have just single photo of my grandfather and ofcourse dont know even name of his father.

Point was when its hard to track our own generation, how are we expecting proofs of several centuries before? But still there are few... I will come back....
 
Old 07-29-2011, 10:50 AM   #2327
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Yes, evolution is proven. We're still refining our understanding of how it works, but that's down in the details, in the big picture the overall framework has stood the test of time.
Does evolution says, there is no GOD?
 
Old 07-29-2011, 10:53 AM   #2328
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Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
How can you say that your prophets were not of the same kind? How can you prove that someone is a magician or illusionist, not a prophet or vice versa? With using science for that?
If that is the case, every magician would be running his own religion not a show at stage.
 
Old 07-29-2011, 11:36 AM   #2329
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Does evolution says, there is no GOD?
Evolution doesn't say a thing about a god. But what it does is give us a perfectly valid explanation for the diversity of life that does not require a god.

In fact, evolution renders Genesis laughable... but what with God parading goats and chickens in front of Adam to see which ones he'd like to have intimate relations with, it was already there long before Darwin.
 
Old 07-29-2011, 11:38 AM   #2330
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
You guys are living in very much advanced country. I have just single photo of my grandfather and ofcourse dont know even name of his father.

Point was when its hard to track our own generation, how are we expecting proofs of several centuries before? But still there are few... I will come back....
You missed my point, which is when extraordinary persons or events are involved, they leave A LOT of evidence. See my example... Julius Caesar most certainly did not live in a technologically advanced society, by today's standards.
 
Old 07-29-2011, 11:42 AM   #2331
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No need to take my pent off to know something new.... several points which science know now about reproduction, has been written already in holy book. I will give details later. Now in hurry.
And yet, the Koran talks about a flat earth, and counts five planets in some places (the number known at the time), eleven elsewhere (don't count on finding three more), so I'm very interested to know what "insights" they possessed about reproduction. Include direct references, please.
 
Old 07-29-2011, 01:48 PM   #2332
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Thumbs down

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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
I think with this logic our body should be very much tough by now ready to fight with any challenge
Wrong. If you can only think about "toughness", then you still don't understand it.
Being tough does not impact survival of humanity anymore, so no selection happens.
Evolution is not about making an individual tougher. It is about making one type organism survive even if individual organism painfully dies in the process. If you take a look at nature, you'll notice quite a lot of ridiculous mechanisms (simplest example is mimicry) that help to survive without making animal tough. Strength and toughness aren't everything.

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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
If that is the case, every magician would be running his own religion not a show at stage.
It looks like you're simply wasting time and cannot present real argument.
 
Old 07-29-2011, 03:19 PM   #2333
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
So are we with common point: nature is a great designer and human is destroyer? (What you call as nature, its GOD for us. right? ){...}
No but so far there is no supporting evidence to think otherwise except version of Energy as God or Love as God but that is not fighting with science but IS science itself.
Quote:
{...}1). We call Sun as Sun. Some other part of world may be calling it as XYZ. How it makes difference as long as its properties are not changed?{...}
Exactly! This is why you just prooved yourself why teachers can proove stuff they teach.
Quote:
{...}2). First of all.... There is no Science vs GOD. Can you think of Science vs Nature? Infact science is ruining nature and nature is helping science in every step.{...}
- Noone knows 100% if it is or not including you real truth but believers annoy cause they force their version to others
- If it is true then believers should stop posting Science vs God posts and let them co-exist
Quote:
{...}"Religion has only one explanation for everyhing - holy books". NO.{...}
Some posts before you said differently - anything unusual means - automatic miracle! Like that body - without doubt done by God hands.
Quote:
{...}Is it not logical if there is GOD, Would He want us to do all these?{...}
It is even more illogical that God can't clearly define what is wrong|right and|or enforce rules despite it could with everything else to allow us exist. Also if God allows free will then we HAVE option to CHOOSE what we will believe in, what we will do, what we will eat, what we will drink, what we will speak etc. and therefore rules contradict free will. Speaking about rules - 10 commandments can be shortened.
Quote:
{...}I never said Quran is only holy book from GOD. There are several other holy books like Bible, Torah...{...}
In that case you don't believe in Quran therefore another proof you lie because you started discussion as believer of Quran but now say God is something else. Either you believe something(religion in this case) 100% or not but don't lie! Otherwise you won't get respect.
Quote:
{...}I dont think u proved (basically disproved).{...}
Holy books are just books. Same way you proove or disproove any other book like Harry Potter you apply same process to holy books. Therefore if you say people can't proove holy book is fake but can proove Harry Potter is fake then you are beeing hypocrite liar. For example here is article(plenty more just quick googled) about science and god - it contains some mistakes ofcourse but just read the part about if science can proove science. Also i dunno how correct these type of books are but i found this that suggests we have God in our DNA - maybe someone has it and can say what is written in it or similar book.
Quote:
{...}No need to take my pent off to know something new.... several points which science know now about reproduction, has been written already in holy book. I will give details later. Now in hurry.
I used that example (super grandfather...) in fly as argument to show when we have no much evidence/proof/records of our 3-4 generation back, how we are expecting same from 1400 years back.....
Here we go again..
- Just because it is written in holy book doesn't mean it is true or proof of God - humans can easy write something there both lies and truth about our world and they could easily write it as observation just like magicians or psychics use trickery to make people believe in them
- Oh yes there is need. You see science(which means knowledge) has thing called accurate prediction which unlike "crystall ball" actually does predict events - which doesn't require you to examine everything or everyone to describe event or take part in event itself. For example i don't have to find where you live and go there to see you to predict truth about you like - you eat, you speak, you use electricity you sleep etc. or that you are walking on Earth not flying to get to shop or anywhere else. Also you should know that your body has other proof that supports evolution - tail bone, eye corner extra "meat", hair on your body some more. Evolution is not about beeing toughest but just to survive and adopt to current environment. This is why for example people in Africa have brown skin. Can you show anything at all that supports God theory?
At the end i would like you to watch this and listen to this to point out you need chill down about this. Noone is against God or beeing humanish towards others but lies in general which comes from people with no souls and religion is full of them.
 
Old 07-30-2011, 11:39 AM   #2334
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What is Virtue?

Iíve attempted in this article to include every major system of belief (or unbelief) under three general ďumbrellas,Ē so to speak. Iíve also endeavored not to preach, judge, or provoke argument, but rather to encourage civil discussions around the topic of virtue, which, in itís essence, should not be controversial. However, I realize the inevitability of disagreement, and conflicts of view. Yet I ask that before you comment, please make your best effort to do so in an attitude of discussion (if still disagreeing), not argument. I will do the same.

Article #3 of "A Laymanís Reflections"

There are three underlying world-views from which a person percieves the idea of virtue:

1) There is no God. Everything that exists is matter. Therefore, virtue is purely analytical, a fancy of the human brain.

2) If there is a God, he is not involved and does not reveal himself and cannot be known by people. Therefore, virtue has nothing to do with the human experience.

3) God is intimately involved with his creation, drawing those close to him who love him. Virtue carries with it the essence of eternity. Those laying hold on virtue also lay hold on immortality.

Rejection of the notion of an intimate God relegates virtue to the nature of the wind, thereís no laying hold, through virtue, on redemption. But what is virtue, really? I take the firm position that virtue is that pursuit of all that is good, which is stored up, together with good things for those who love God.
 
Old 07-30-2011, 11:52 AM   #2335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
What is Virtue?
A fictional concept originating from religions that foolishly divide world into "good" and "evil".

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegospel View Post
1) There is no God...
2) If there is a God, he is not involved and does not reveal himself and cannot be known by people.
3) God is intimately involved with his creation, drawing those close to him who love him.
Possible scenario #4: there is cruel god that loves torturing people, causing misfortune and disasters.

Last edited by SigTerm; 07-30-2011 at 11:55 AM.
 
Old 07-30-2011, 12:02 PM   #2336
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You should have posted this on mega-thread but yea every religion is more or less "dogma". Also there is possibility God existed and..died or just left us. Anyway if it exists and has any intelligence whatsoever it shouldn't punish people for lame reasons like "Don't believe in me?-Go to hell! Don't pray to me?-Go to hell! etc." otherwise Alien theory and Evolution seems more reasonable.
 
Old 07-30-2011, 12:06 PM   #2337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigTerm View Post
Possible scenario #4: there is cruel god that loves torturing people, causing misfortune and disasters.
agreed.
 
Old 07-30-2011, 01:28 PM   #2338
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*asks Lord British*

http://uo.stratics.com/secrets/books/book_27.shtml

:P
 
Old 07-30-2011, 01:51 PM   #2339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigTerm View Post
Possible scenario #4: there is cruel god that loves torturing people, causing misfortune and disasters.
#5: There are multiple gods who may or may not be at war with each other at any given time.

#6: God(s) do(es) exist, but not as described in any religions; humans are biologically incapable of recognizing their true nature.

Last edited by dugan; 07-30-2011 at 01:59 PM.
 
Old 07-30-2011, 04:26 PM   #2340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SigTerm View Post
A fictional concept originating from religions that foolishly divide world into "good" and "evil".
Not quite, even science and math follow virtues, truth is not a functional concept, also one can be neither good nor evil and still have a set of virtues he follows or tries to follow. It is not possible to be good or evil, because we have no way to establish what maximum good or evil is, since we have no starting points nor end points to the scale we have no scale at all. Everything happens for a reason and because of this we can not say someone or thing is truly good nor evil, it's like saying people can be perfect... if you can not define perfect as a global trait then you cant define perfect as all, my perfect is not your perfect, since this will always be the case there again can be no such thing as perfect.
 
  


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