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View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 168 28.82%
Deist 18 3.09%
Theist 23 3.95%
Agnostic 120 20.58%
Atheist 254 43.57%
Voters: 583. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-19-2011, 10:41 AM   #2086
ShaanAli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sycamorex View Post
Again from my experience (looking at people I've met in my life), the rule of thumb would be the higher education a person has, the more likely they are to be an atheist/agnostic.
Well i have different experience in this. I believe this will be depending on the religion and the logic & thinking one applies.


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Originally Posted by sycamorex View Post
It was merely about the fact that ironically atheists tend to know more about religion than a big percentage of religious people.
Agree. But I wonder why then religious books are not able to turn them?

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Originally Posted by sycamorex View Post
Most of religious people I know don't think about their believes. They inherited them from their parents and are most likely to pass them on to their children. They are happy like that so I don't have a problem with that. My point is that sometimes they might not know much about what they actually believe in.
Agree. In today's world very little percentage of people learn and practice their religion. They blindly follow what their parents follow.
One of reason could be they dont want to know their religion because simply they dont want to loose their freedom. Applies to atheist also.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 10:52 AM   #2087
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Agree. But I wonder why then religious books are not able to turn them?
Because these religious books are just one of many reference materials they're using, and by any objective evaluation, the religious books aren't very reliable. It's hard to make a convincing case if you're frequently contradicting yourself.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 11:06 AM   #2088
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Originally Posted by SL00b View Post
Because these religious books are just one of many reference materials they're using, and by any objective evaluation, the religious books aren't very reliable. It's hard to make a convincing case if you're frequently contradicting yourself.
Contradiction/unreliability could be because of books are not authentic anymore.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 11:16 AM   #2089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Well i have different experience in this. I believe this will be depending on the religion and the logic & thinking one applies.
As I said it'll probably depend on the country. The data would probably be very different, for example, for the Czech Republic (predominantly atheist) and Portugal where believers constitute the great majority of the population.
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Agree. But I wonder why then religious books are not able to turn them?
Perhaps, it was the religious books that discouraged them from religion in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Agree. In today's world very little percentage of people learn and practice their religion. They blindly follow what their parents follow.
One of reason could be they dont want to know their religion because simply they dont want to loose their freedom. Applies to atheist also.
I'm not sure I understand your point here. I thought most religious people claim that religions "set you free". Are you actually admitting here that religion limits your freedom? Wow, that would be the first honest and rational response here.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 11:20 AM   #2090
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Originally Posted by sycamorex View Post
I thought most religious people claim that religions "set you free". Are you actually admitting here that religion limits your freedom?
In some cases it does. For example there are religions in which cutting head hair, beard, mustache is strictly forbidden. Some religions force certain kinds of clothes like veils and turbans etc on people.
And then you are forced to follow certain kinds of fasts on certain days, and then, women are not allowed to go outside without male company..etc.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 11:27 AM   #2091
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The word "religion" comes from the Latin word meaning to bind - just the opposite to setting you free.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 11:38 AM   #2092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul View Post
In some cases it does. For example there are religions in which cutting head hair, beard, mustache is strictly forbidden. Some religions force certain kinds of clothes like veils and turbans etc on people.
And then you are forced to follow certain kinds of fasts on certain days, and then, women are not allowed to go outside without male company..etc.
Yes, that's what I'm saying and please correct me if I'm wrong but don't (all/most?) religions ultimately boil down to a simple idea: "Believe in me (god) and adhere to my rules and I (god) will grant you a place in heaven. Otherwise, I'll make sure you'll be punished in hell."

That doesn't sound very liberating, does it? In this respect I think buddhism is quite different, but I'm not sure I'd classified it as a religion - more as a philosophy.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 11:40 AM   #2093
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Originally Posted by brianL View Post
The word "religion" comes from the Latin word meaning to bind - just the opposite to setting you free.
Another meaning could be 'to bind people together'.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 11:49 AM   #2094
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Another meaning could be 'to bind people together'.
Agreed. It's ambiguous. It can mean whatever the people in power want it to mean.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 11:57 AM   #2095
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Originally Posted by sycamorex View Post
Yes, that's what I'm saying and please correct me if I'm wrong but don't (all/most?) religions ultimately boil down to a simple idea: "Believe in me (god) and adhere to my rules and I (god) will grant you a place in heaven. Otherwise, I'll make sure you'll be punished in hell."

That doesn't sound very liberating, does it? In this respect I think buddhism is quite different, but I'm not sure I'd classified it as a religion - more as a philosophy.
Is there anything wrong with this belief? Sounds a lot like life in general. Rules are established and people follow them. Light at the intersection turns red and people stop. It isn't very liberating, what gives that light the right to tell me what to do? Christian God says "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." What? I have to be nice now? that isn't very liberating. Maybe some of these rules are beneficial, there may be a thought that following may lead to more freedom than disobeying. I stop at the red light, I don't get hit by a truck, I'm nice to others and they are nice to me.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 12:08 PM   #2096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sycamorex View Post
but don't (all/most?) religions ultimately boil down to a simple idea: "Believe in me (god) and adhere to my rules and I (god) will grant you a place in heaven. Otherwise, I'll make sure you'll be punished in hell."
Don't know about other religions much, but have read some chapters of Baghwad Gita. The Lord Krishna, only keeps on convincing the human, that you shouldn't attach yourself much to worldly ways otherwise you'll suffer in the end since humans are supposed to die, and yes he tells the human to believe in Him, but I haven't heard Him saying anywhere that if you don't believe in me, I'll send you to hell. If I find him saying something like this in the further chapters, perhaps, I'll quit Hinduism.

Have also read Ramayana, in which the Lord Ram is shown duly killing the demons (I don't see any problem with that), and also it is shown the Lord Ram had eaten the fruit tasted and then offered by a schedule cast woman. It is shown that the God doesn't differentiate between humans of different castes etc.

In a nutshell, I haven't YET found God dictating rules which are compulsory to follow or you get thrown to hell.

and also I haven't read the Vedas and complete Baghwad Gita, but when I read them and I find God saying something like that, perhaps I'll be shunning Hinduism.

You mentioned Buddhism, but I have a meager mind which doesn't know much about other religions in detail, perhaps because I have no friends and neighbors and office mates which are Christians, Buddhists.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 12:21 PM   #2097
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Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid View Post
Is there anything wrong with this belief? Sounds a lot like life in general. Rules are established and people follow them. Light at the intersection turns red and people stop. It isn't very liberating, what gives that light the right to tell me what to do? Christian God says "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." What? I have to be nice now? that isn't very liberating. Maybe some of these rules are beneficial, there may be a thought that following may lead to more freedom than disobeying. I stop at the red light, I don't get hit by a truck, I'm nice to others and they are nice to me.
I totally agree and don't have a problem with it. If believers say: "yes, my religion limits my freedom, but it has other benefits and therefore I am comfortable with it," that is an honest and quite understandable approach. What I don't understand is the concept of religions setting you free. How many times have I seen the slogan: Jesus sets you free, etc.

As to the real life, of course it's full of rules that we should follow. They are there for a reason - to make our lives easier, but no one is claiming, for example, that the Highway Code is there to set us free. I understand that religion and its rules has some benefits for some people. What is important here is that it doesn't make it true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinker_Fluid View Post
Christian God says "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
This is a very good and rational rule, but I'm not sure it should be ascribed entirely to god. It's just common sense. We didn't need god to come up with it. It was a necessity for members of tribes to survive in the old times. They soon realised that living in a group gave them the best chances of survival, and to maintain the group they had to look after each other. This rule/approach was inevitable for them to survive.

Last edited by sycamorex; 07-19-2011 at 12:23 PM.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 12:35 PM   #2098
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Originally Posted by ShaanAli View Post
Agree. But I wonder why then religious books are not able to turn them?
........
........
One of reason could be they dont want to know their religion because simply they dont want to loose their freedom. Applies to atheist also.
If you've been reading the couple of posts above this one of yours, you would've got the closest answer.
These were the books at the very first place, which only told them what is what. Not why. Too simple, ain't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul
In a nutshell, I haven't YET found God dictating rules which are compulsory to follow or you get thrown to hell....
and also I haven't read the Vedas and complete Baghwad Gita, but when I read them and I find God saying something like that, perhaps I'll be shunning Hinduism....
No need, you may read all of them fully throughout your lifetime taking you time and you'll never find the mention of punishment just because of not following him/her/them/it.
In fact, being a Hindu, (be it agnostic) I could only take one wonderful thing out of my belief system, and that was the mention in every single scripture of the message - "Aham Brahmasmi." That meant, God is in me / God is Me / God is everywhere. Call it anything. Very simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul
You mentioned Buddhism, but I have a meager mind which doesn't know much about other religions in detail, perhaps because I have no friends and neighbors and office mates which are Christians, Buddhists.
Ahh, I can mention here something in general;
My family/roots consists of Hindu Brahmins and Sikhs.
My best friends from my childhood consists of Sikhs, Muslims and Christians.
My childhood sweetheart is a Muslim. I just can see where do all stand on a belief level.
But that doesn't mean I know all about their system all, NO, but nothing of them could even convince me to believe what is closer to what I need. But that makes me ME, people have choices, I made my choice.


Regards.

Last edited by PrinceCruise; 07-19-2011 at 03:47 PM.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 01:36 PM   #2099
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Contradiction/unreliability could be because of books are not authentic anymore.
Or that they never were in the first place.

As someone mentioned before, if these things were inspired by divine intervention by an omnipotent and omnipresent being, he'd have no trouble in keeping his word intact.
 
Old 07-19-2011, 02:30 PM   #2100
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I'm not sure I understand your point here. I thought most religious people claim that religions "set you free". Are you actually admitting here that religion limits your freedom? Wow, that would be the first honest and rational response here.
illegal relationships..... nudity.... alcohol..... i dont think any religion allows them!! So if you follow your religion sincerely, you have to give up these...
 
  


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