The Faith & Religion mega Thread

I'm an atheist.
P.S. No, I'm not a communist.

Originally Posted by SigTerm It doesn't. If you selected wrong religion and there is a god, then you will not be okay when you "check out", but you'll end up in same place as "unbelievers". You have same chances as "unfaithful" - 100% / total_number_of_religions_and_faiths , which is somewhere around 0.13% (it is said there are roughly 730 established religions).

But why stop at the established religions? Shouldn't it be (100% / total_number_of_possible_religions_and_faiths)?

"Imagine...

And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace."

John Lennon.

Originally Posted by cascade9 Hinduism monotheistic? I'm sorry, but if thats the level of discussion you are using, replying to you is pointless. If you had of said 'some people view Hinduism as monothestic' I would have accepted it. But flat-out calling hinduism monothestic without any qualifier is misleading, at best.

Oops..... you got me wrong buddy. My reply was to "More religions are polytheistic than montheistic."

Hinduism is polytheistic. We all know that. Please dont read in hurry.

Originally Posted by Arcane Wrong..they have same operating base - facts and same type process of getting to truth. It is not approach that "we will now think about something and it will automatically be true because it can be true if we consider humans don't create truth.".

Knowledge which is passing by generation to generation (altered or not), how can you prove that with science?

Originally Posted by SigTerm It doesn't. If you selected wrong religion and there is a god, then you will not be okay when you "check out", but you'll end up in same place as "unbelievers". You have same chances as "unfaithful" - 100% / total_number_of_religions_and_faiths , which is somewhere around 0.13% (it is said there are roughly 730 established religions).

Wow, people actually belive that any god worth more than a snot-stain on a sleeve is going to care which god you worshiped?

If the gods are going to get prissy about how worshiped what, and will take 'belivers' (who might have been monsters) over 'non-believers' (who might have been wonderful people) there is somethign seriously wrong.

If the Dali Lama cant get into a 'christian' heaven, or Pope John Paul I cant get into a buddhist heaven (or at least get a large pile of good karma! LOL) there is something seriously wrong.

I'd chuck in with 'the other side' if I thought that was the case.

IMO the basis for the whole 'if you dont believe in my god your going to hell' is just another example of control by theological powers.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli Oops..... you got me wrong buddy. My reply was to "More religions are polytheistic than montheistic." Hinduism is polytheistic. We all know that. Please dont read in hurry.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli Two first big religions are monotheistic. Hinduism, yes. Buddhism - they reject the creator.

Considering that hinduism is one of the oldest religions in the world, and buddhism isnt that much younger, the way I read your statement makes prefect sense.

Please dont write in such a hurry.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli I am not referring ancient world... In todays world Christianity and Islaam are two major religions, and both believe in one GOD.

Strange, I dont recall there being some silly 'trinty' in Islam. There are a lot of other differences as well. Just because they are 'religions of the book' does not mean that they worship the same god. The whole 'religions of the book worship the same god' is IMO spin.

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul What proof is there that it was Allah who made Prophet Mohamed write Quran? If it was Prophet who wrote Quran, it is very much possible that he made it up himself just to gain some publicity!

None at all.

As far as I know, the koran is supposed to have been dictated by the angel Gabriel (sorry, I cant remember the arabic name now). Which has a few huge problems, the biggest of which is...how could Muhammad know that it was an 'angel', not a devil?

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul What proof is there that it was Allah who made Prophet Mohamed write Quran? If it was Prophet who wrote Quran, it is very much possible that he made it up himself just to gain some publicity!

Can one human being 1500 years before write a book in such a way that there will be 2 thousand millions followers (existing) and challenge all human beings to write even single similar surah(chapter) of that?
I explained in my previous post how Quran was revealed. Have a look at that.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli Can one human being 1500 years before write a book in such a way that there will be 2 thousand millions followers (existing) and challenge all human beings to write even single similar surah(chapter) of that?

Yes, human beings are intelligent enough to write long books, though not all. Even if you say that Prophet Mohamed had no intelligence/wits of his own to write a book, it doesn't prove that Allah made him write it. It is very much possible his companions or some groups of intelligent people wrote that up and let Prophet have the credit. After all, who kept an eye on him when he was writing it down?

Originally Posted by ShaanAli I explained in my previous post how Quran was revealed. Have a look at that.

This is what you wrote:

Originally Posted by ShaanAli Dont be so sure, if you dont know. If you say "who wrote", yes it was written by human beings not by GOD. But they wrote what Allah wanted them to write. Quran was revealed to Phrophet muhammed in bit and pieces for over 23 years. His companion used to write down.

Why didn't Allah write it out himself BTW, rather than asking Prophet to write it?

Originally Posted by ShaanAli Can one human being 1500 years before write a book in such a way that there will be 2 thousand millions followers (existing) and challenge all human beings to write even single similar surah(chapter) of that?{...}

1)Yes - politics do same nowadays..
2)Who said only 1 human did it?
3)The whole point of this is that God is still just "idea" not "fact". For example if you make coffee or hot tea or play with fire in standart conditions(not having any protection stuff) you will get burned skin if you touch hot water or fire too much. That is fact! Noone on Earth can deny it! God is different story. Some imaginary stuff that doesn't exist or exists in movies or fairy tales is still fiction. If you still don't understand this then just keep in mind you exist because of reality not fiction stories..

Knowledge which is passing by generation to generation (altered or not), how can you prove that with science?

You just prooved it yourself. It is passed from one gen to other. And if you ask how to proove knowledge then you contradict yourself because knowledge is already prooved stuff and can be retested any day because when you proove something you create recipe of how to proove it. Seriously when people talk about science they don't mean laboratory with scientists but prooven things like facts. Basically reality as whole not ideas or fantasy. Long story short. Watch this video and keep in mind that "bullet" is reality and "idea man" believers.
I really hope if God exists it is now laughing at all this nonsence..ok i think it is enough already. If you want believe in something fine just keep the distance..and yes if God is sorting people just by to whom they believe in not how they are then it is not worthy to be God who is above humans since reality is far better "lord" and it conflicts with reality because reality is above human level. Even believers can't know they will be going to heaven because even they don't know how that system really works IF it exists!

The Koran wasn't written until 600 years after Christ. The new testament of the Christian bible was generally written mainly 100 years after he died. It was also written some thousand years or so after the old testament. Joseph Smith wrote down the Book of Mormon 100 years ago or so. More recently Jim Jones and David Koresh claimed to either be speaking for or actually be Jesus.

So the answer is can any human write something and have millions of people believe it has been, I think, answered many times. For all you know the writing of MensaWater may hundreds of years from now be deemed the true utterings of the Giant Unicorn. There are weak minded individuals that will seize on theologies whether they be the "one true one" or not. I'll leave it for the readers to decide if any of the ones above are.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli Can one human being 1500 years before write a book in such a way that there will be 2 thousand millions followers (existing)

Yes. And a group of human beings will have higher chance of success.

To have a "possibly divine" origin a book should be written at least 10 thousands of years ago (few hundreds of thousands or a few millions of years would be a better idea), it should possess unusual properties, and should contain knowledge that will not be discovered for next 10 or 20 thousands of years. 1500 years is a joke - there were civilization long before that and they had math. If there were an indestructible book written 10000..10000000 years ago that would cover major areas of modern science (math, biology, chemistry, electricity, nuclear fusion and explanation of space/time), then you could say that it is possible that such books have a non-human origin (although even in this case it would be still easier to blame aliens for book's existence instead of god).

I find it interesting that any religion person would say that religion opens up your mind, even tho I have heard may say that it does. Maybe the fundamental difference between the religious and non-religious is the definition of "open". I bet no religion person can explain why it would open your mind instead of severely restricting and limiting it. I think they were told this in their church or in their book, but they cannot argue for it.

Originally Posted by SigTerm Yes. And a group of human beings will have higher chance of success. To have a "possibly divine" origin a book should be written at least 10 thousands of years ago (few hundreds of thousands or a few millions of years would be a better idea), it should possess unusual properties, and should contain knowledge that will not be discovered for next 10 or 20 thousands of years. 1500 years is a joke - there were civilization long before that and they had math. If there were an indestructible book written 10000..10000000 years ago that would cover major areas of modern science (math, biology, chemistry, electricity, nuclear fusion and explanation of space/time), then you could say that it is possible that such books have a non-human origin (although even in this case it would be still easier to blame aliens for book's existence instead of god).

++1. You have hit the nail.
Is it so hard to understand for people? Oh yeah, with closed eyes .

Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H I find it interesting that any religion person would say that religion opens up your mind, even tho I have heard may say that it does. Maybe the fundamental difference between the religious and non-religious is the definition of "open". I bet no religion person can explain why it would open your mind instead of severely restricting and limiting it. I think they were told this in their church or in their book, but they cannot argue for it.

Yeah, and so far from my experiences with utterly so called religious people, it seems they had got limited to a circle.
I don't know why. I was a religious boy since my teenage, and then it was my belief system itself which made me open my mind and eyes and seek the answer not just in books but around myself.
There's no answer to any such thing so far, to me.

Regards.

Originally Posted by PrinceSharma {...}it seems they had got limited to a circle.{...}

Yes..they are those type of people who feed on human doubts and use incomplete arguments(without context) to win fights. Same like with Paper-Rock-Scissors game - everyone can win and loose if you think about it without actual context or example but they need realize that no matter who wins or looses reality wins always.

{...}seek the answer not just in books but around myself.{...}

Another thing people need to realize books are not absolute source of truth - they can be of course but at same time they can be full of lies and full of fiction because of author - humans. Books are like ancient version of movies - some are fiction some documentary. And yes if there exists such holy book it should match description that above poster said to be clearly God given book. Just imagine this - if you were God and you decided to write holy book would you make it precisely same like already existing hundreds of thousands books already? I really don't get it - people born they grow up in environment where they are forced to learn laws of life and go to school where they should learn how to recognize truth from lies. How come all this knowledge and wisdom and common sence are gone when they start believing something like God? I guess that is why psychology not weapons is most common used tool to control crowds..